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Deposit Protection - Misleading info [Page 3]

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« Reply #60 on: September 30, 2021, 12:24:42 AM »

one question, since this started possesion claim then money claim and now small track counterclaim...who pays for the costs if I win?

also, is there any separate fee to be paid now that I am basically the Claimant in my case? I do not want to make the same thing LL did in not paying the fee.
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« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2021, 04:29:23 PM »

I have not received the court directions on what exactly to do and also when contacted court, they say the directions will be sent out when the hearing date is finalised.

so, I do not know what exactly to do.. only thing I heard during my last hearing was, I am the Part20 claimant now and I need to file and serve hard copies. I am not aware of any Part20 form to fill or any additional fees to pay.

anyone who knows this area, pls advice me.

For now, I am just going to print the bundle the LL hard originally sent me via email (which the court could not find) and send copies to both the court and the LL. Hope it is ok?

Do I also need a proof of delivery? else I can hand-deliver as the addresses, especially the court's are just near by.

Thanks
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« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2021, 09:17:07 AM »

Hi all,

some development in this saga..

LL's counsel has called me to ask if we can settle this out of court...

but I do not know what to do..given my case, from previous experiences on similar cases (potentially 4 tenancies and PI was not served for each one of them), what do we think is the 'reasonable' sum I am likely to get?

In the last two years of this case, I have heavily invested a lot of time on this and almost now at the finishing line, so I am also tempted to see this all the way through..Not sure, if this is right though as this my first court case ever in my life..

any advice, pls let me know.

thanks in advance
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« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2021, 07:58:02 PM »

Of course... tell them you understand the minimum and maximum exposure, as do they, so they should present their best offer to you. Then you see what happens. You don't mention the first number.
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2021, 02:56:49 PM »

yep..but the problem is me knowing what is the minimum and maximum penalty I can get. I have no question that I would win the case though as he simply has no defence.

so I understand it in addition to the deposit, I may minimum get 1x penalty or maximum 12x (3 times for 4 tenancies if I am able to convince court).

The fact that LL actually protected the deposit for majority of the period (despite not serving me a valid PI in any of the case, for that matter he has not served a valid PI to this date), I am not sure how the Judge would see this..is there anywhere I can easily find for such cases to get an idea?

also, once I win, will the courts ask the claimant to pay any interest ( as the deposit is not yet paid back to me and I have vacated the property two years ago) + costs (I hv paid court over £700 in fees alone + all the hours I spent on researching this area)

appreciate some input on this from anyone. thanks
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« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2021, 05:08:31 PM »

Why does it matter?

Put the ball into their Court and tell them that, yes, you're very amenable to hearing their offer to settle this and avoiding going to Court... then see if the number they come back with pleases you. It doesn't hurt to point out any things like interest and costs you've accrued over the time... so they know that low-balling you in an insulting way won't get them anywhere... use your communication skills to set them up so they offer you something worth your time and something that you can use to bring the matter to a close. Your position here should not be one where you continually turn the screw while trying to extract all the juice from the Landlord's furry plums.
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« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2021, 05:46:33 PM »

yes, I am talking with them..the first offer they came up with was I drop the charges and I only get the deposit back...nothing extra..which I have politely declined and asked them to come up with a better one.

reason I am asking for some 'guide' on what I am likely to get is that so I know where to draw the line...hope it is clearer..
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« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2021, 08:14:22 PM »

The minimum is 1x per tenancy, well 1x overall if you found a judge that decides only 1 penalty however many tenancies but most would agree that's not correct in law. The maximum is 3x per tenancy. The court can take into account anything relevant in deciding the penalty. How experience is the landlord - a professional letting agent or a landlord with a large portfolio whose main income is letting are expected to know better than someone who let out the family home while they're working away from home for a couple of years say; was the deposit protected at all and if so when; if the tenancy is finished was the deposit returned within a reasonable time with reasonable claims for deductions etc. Then with multiple tenancies hence multiple penalty they can also consider if the overall amount is reasonable - say in a case where the judge decides 2x is reasonable but there was 10 six-months tenancies, the 20x total was over the top so reduce it for example.

I think you mentioned the landlord's claim was assigned small claims, what about your counterclaim? If it stayed in small claims, then cost are mostly irrelevant - you'll get your claims and hearing fees back.

Interest on the deposit maybe. Not interest on the penalty, it hasn't been awarded yet, the landlord aren't liable to interest on something they're not owing yet.
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« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2021, 09:46:53 AM »

yes, I am talking with them..the first offer they came up with was I drop the charges and I only get the deposit back...nothing extra..which I have politely declined and asked them to come up with a better one.

Yes, this is what you do. Be polite and firm. Don't say "yes" to anything you feel isn't right. At the end of the day they're the ones trying to avoid Court now (openly, I mean, obviously you'd prefer to avoid it too). But only you can have a notion of what you'd be satisfied with. And it doesn't have to be any kind of multiple of Deposit x severity x number of tenancy... it can just be a nice, round amount that you feel adequately compensates you for everything.

The first offer is derisory... but of course it is... isn't it always? That's the whole idea. The power of a simple "no" is a thing many people don't fully understand. It seems, to me, you're in the driving seat. It's not like if you don't agree with their offer(s) you have no other avenue open to you. So let the offers roll in and assess them. If they've reached the point where they're suggesting to you they'd like to settle, then they know they're on the hook for something... but, don't forget, for them it'll just be maths now. So once the first offer comes in that doesn't make you want to puke or laugh out loud (while puking)... I'd probably take it.
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« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2021, 03:45:17 PM »

yes, now I believe soon I be asked to make a counter offer..Hence why I am trying to understand the average award in cases like this..
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« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2021, 06:11:17 PM »

Refuse?

"Make a sensible offier or my only counter offer is "see you in Court""? You already know they want to avoid that outcome.

Don't let the tail wag the dog. You are in control. Retain control. Don't be gullible. Every time you mention a number it gives the other side opportunity to drop your expectations.
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« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2021, 08:59:07 PM »

I'm sorry, this is court, not bargaining on a street market.

Especially if case is NOT in small claims, so cost award is a consideration, the side making the offer benefits if the result is at least as good as the offer they made, whereas the one receiving the offer has to beat it. If you have a figure in your head, just make the offer. If you're worried about going too low when they would have agreed to a higher figure, just start off with a number that's bit higher than you're happy with.
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« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2021, 01:15:00 AM »

the case is in 'small claim track' does this mean no cost award is made KTC..i.e the winner can claim legal costs ?

Had this offer came in years ago, I would have accepted it, now I had to spend a lot of time and having filed a bundle more than 200 pages long in hard copy, I am contemplating making an offer is worthwhile at this last stage..
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« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2021, 01:28:06 AM »

If it's on the small claims track, then the winning party (generally) are only entitled to ask the court to award cost such as (in your case) the counterclaim issue fee and any other court fee you may have paid.

The court can order "such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably". "A party’s rejection of an offer in settlement will not of itself constitute unreasonable behaviour .. but the court may take it into consideration when it is applying the unreasonableness test."
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« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2021, 11:26:31 AM »

ok thnaks KTC, what other costs you refer as 'further costs' ? any legal advice costs I may have incurred etc. is it ?  and is there a process to make such request, or should I just saying in the hearing, I want cost awards for X, Y, X?

about offers and its impact, I thought those are without prejudice, meaning they are not admissible in court ?
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« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2021, 06:26:18 PM »

That quote can be summarised/translated as 'if a party behaved unreasonably, then the court can award cost against them to punish them". I have no idea how you ask for that cost in small claims.

They're not admissible prior to the court judgments so not to influence the judgment itself. Once the judgments are made, that's when cost are considered, it's then that parties can reveal for example I offered to settle for less but they rejected it so they're liable for extra cost.
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« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2021, 09:34:09 AM »

ok, thanks KTC. Out of curiosity, is there a limit for small claims? and what are the other types of 'claims'?

In my case, initially I had only gone for 3x deposit which is around 7k + 2k original deposit, so made a claim for a total of 9k paying £455.

Now that, there is potentially an argument for 4 different tenancies, I can argue is court for  7 x 4 = 28 , so does that mean I need to pay more fee, if not Judge will simply refuse higher pay out based on the fact that I have not paid the fee accordingly?

thanks
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