UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi

It started back in the summer (late July), an old work friend had a relationship breakdown and had no where to stay. She had two children and knew my house was empty and that I was in financial hardship. I had been trying to sell it via auction but the offers were so ridiculous I wouldn't let my house go below the reserve price, so I took it off the market to give her a base.

As I knew her of old and that her circumstances were desperate, I didn't ask for a deposit and allowed two weeks free of rent before the tenancy formally started. I did have a tenancy agreement put in place for six months. It became obvious that the crocodile tears wept were to get sympathy and as soon as she was in my house, she had no time for any friendship with me even though I live just a few minutes away and you can walk to where I actually stay.

One week after allowing her to move in, I fell out of work and knew that I had to put the house back on the market with her as a sitting tenant in order that I would qualify for JSA. There has been no interest shown in viewings except for one last week and one this week - 2 in total. The house has been put up for sale with a regular estate agent in August. The tenant was fully aware of the situation from the beginning and was grateful to have a roof over her head. I assured her that she would not be left homeless and she seemed happy enough with the situation.

I have only just started a new job this week and am so imagine my surprise/horror to receive a text whilst I'm trying to get to grips with my new job, that she has gone to the council and wants me to write her a letter stating she has had to leave the house so that she can get emergency local authority housing. After all that I've done for her! I politely replied that she was not being put out and that if I got a buyer I would then write the letter that had been asked of me. The next day she text again stating that she wanted the letter. Not once has she said thanks for what I'd done for her or even that she has given me any notice. I told her that she wasn't been fair to me and that she is dropping me in the poo regarding paying the mortgage. The estate agent says that normally sales go through around 6 -12 weeks after the offer is accepted and that she isn't being made homeless and that I'll write the letter when the time comes that I've a buyer. She still wants to go immediately into council housing. She's text since but I won't even read it as I'm so irrate at the lack of thought for me and my situation. It's making me feel ill.

My question is, am I in a situation where I can demand 1 month's notice from her to leave in view of the fact my house is up for sale and she has allowed viewings? She wants to go immediately regardless of the tenancy agreement and she obviously couldn't give a damn about how I'm to pay the mortgage. What are my rights?

Please can anyone give me a quick response. Thank you all in advance xxxxx

Hello Dawn,

You say: "After all that I've done for her!"  Sorry if this sounds un-sympathetic but...  One month after your friend moves into your house to use her hard earned money to pay for your mortgage, you put her home up for sale.  And even when you get a job, you carry on selling the house.  And the only reason you've got the house is because you want to sell it for more than it's worth.  And you think you're being hard done by!

However, this forum is here to help, rather than criticise and as long as you can sleep soundly in your bed at night, then I guess all's well with the world.

Your collegue / tenant / irritant is probably quite shocked, so I'm not surprised she wants to go.  However, as she has entered a six month AST then tenant protection law prevents you from evicting her from the property prior to this.  And if she leavs voluntarily then she loses her rights to benefits.  So legally speaking you can not evict her at all prior to the expity of the six month term.  If you try to and the council spend more time on her case, they might realise this and withdraw an offer of benefit.  And possibly threaten you with proceedings for harasment.  As they won't be able to tell the difference between a rubbish landlord and you.  Then again, nor can I.

So you're both stuck with each other until the first of:
- The six months elapses and the tenancy expires (but remember to issue a Section 21 notice at month 4)
- You sell the house and she gets a decent landlord
- One of you dies

Hi

Thanks for your reply. Here are the facts:

1. She wants to go without giving me notice. If she wants to go fine. I won't stop her. I am not unreasonable wanting some notice. I have written about my predicament to find out can she legally go without giving notice as it's clear she will leave the minute another offer comes along. I am entitled to notice if not out of a legal/landlord point of view, but at the least out of courtesy.

2. The house was already up for sale when she wanted to move in  - so no shock there for her.

3. I have not misled her to believe the house wasn't going on the market; and I did not put the house on the market 1 month after she moved in; and even though the house was already up for sale, she begged to move in and wanted to stay as long as she could. I pointed out the house was up for sale and she wanted to stay even up until the house was sold.

4. I have only been in this job 4 days. It is a tentative time and there are no guarantees of being kept on and whether you agree or not, if I am out of work and have a tenant who pays rent, I won't get JSA. If the job doesn't work out, I will need JSA to eat and survive. I'm no scrounger, I am an independant, lawful individual and I would have taken the house of the market once my probation period was over.

5. She has the cheapest rent going in the area. I don't make any profit at all.

6. The rent I'm charging barely covers the mortgage. I actually pay for the insurances out of my own pocket

7. She's largely on benefits not hard earned cash

8. She is not a colleague or an irritant. You shouldn't be so flippant with your comments. You are out of order.

9. I'm not a charity though I've been treated as one. She is treating my house as casually as borrowing a library book.

10. I'm not selling my house for more than it's worth. That is an inaccurate and totally rude assumption on your behalf and none of your business

11. I know the individual not you. Again your assertion that she is shocked and has your complete empathy is out of order.  She's no victim and I'm no monster. I asked for advice on the facts of the matter not your inaccurate and biased character assumptions/judgements of me or her. You are rude and need to go back to moderator school as you're certainly a poor example of one.

12. I also need to add that because she was a tenant at the time when I fell out of work, I wasn't awarded JSA until 11 weeks later! to qualify for JSA when you have a tenant, your house has to be on the market with the sitting tenant. I never once held resentment towards her about this; so even though I faced finacial difficulty and extreme inconveniece by allowing her to live in the house, my altruistic nature got me through this difficult time as I wouldn't see her homeless. That's hardly being a selfish landlord!

13. I could go on but I'm not pedantic

Have a nice day

Hello Dawn,

Thanks for your reply and sorry for my delay in getting back.  I hope your new job goes well.  Can I please suggest that if it involves communication skills then you need to think about improving yours as your initial story and subsequent points are out of step with each other.

1 - Yes, fair enough, a fair summary of your story.

2 - No.  It was not up for sale in your first story.  "so I took it off the market to give her a base" and "I had been trying to sell it via auction".  'Had' is past tense.

3 - Ok.  Fine.  But this is all new infomration, which would have been pertinnent to the story.  So for your commincation skills, you need to think about what you do and don't include.

4 - OK.  Fine.  But you are also a landlord.  You are on a landlord forum which is contributed to by professional landlords.  We have to offer a good tenant experience or we don't stay in business.  We don't get a "sympathy vote" for our personal circumstances.  When things break we are expected to get them fixed, even if akward things like holidays, funerals, parent evenings etc get in the way.

5 - New information.  And actually, not that relevent.

6 - Same comment as 4.  No sympathy.

7 - So what?

8 - You say "It became obvious that the crocodile tears wept were to get sympathy", "After all that I've done for her!" and "Not once has she said thanks".  Even if you don't think she is an irritant to you, you give the impression she is.  Communication skills.

9 - New information.  And actually, not that relevent.

10 - You are trying to sell your house for more than it's worth.  You say "I had been trying to sell it via auction but the offers were so ridiculous I wouldn't let my house go below the reserve price" and that you've had next to no viewings when selling via private treaty.  This is very indicative of the house being over-priced.  Auctions are very good at getting people to compete in bidding with each other.  And no viewings mean there are better houses at a similar price available, so no one's bothered to come round and view yours.

11 - Yes, probably fiar comment.  But only because of all the new information you've offered.  Communication skills.

12 - You were not being altruistic.  In your original story you lost your job after she moved in.  You just had no option than to accept what was happening with your JSA.

13 - OK

In response to your last:

Serial 2. Having re-read my origional post. I realise there was a small error in one of my sentences. I had left the word "back" out of the sentence so it should have read "back on the market". I hadn't realised at the time. I type fast. This was a simple typing error and I do not deserve to be lambasted over that origional post.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with my communication skills and tenses. How very arrogant and offensive you are. How dare you!!!

Serial 3.  I was giving a snap shot of events - not war and peace which would not have been appropriate. What was included was pertinent. Again I asked for facts in the tenant leaving without notice and I got back in large degree your character appraisal of me of which you are out of order; and you still are!! You really are very offensive and out of order!

Serial 4. I have not asked for anyone's sympathy LEAST OF ALL YOURS! I am well aware of landlord responsibilities. That's why I have a tenancy agreement in place. I also know how to suck eggs! Grow up !

Serial 5. Actually it is relevant! Because it illustrates my lack of selfishness which you have clearly inferred that I have, and you don't even know me.  I am aggrieved by the emotional manipulation and betrayal of someone who was once a friend, and as such I vented some of the hurt and betrayal I am feeling. That is not seeking sympathy - especially of you; and none has been requested. Have I communicated this clearly eough for you to understand?

Serial 6. Refer to serial 5.

Serial 7. The point is you clearly said she had used her "hard earned cash to pay my mortgage". I am only pointing out your error and one of a number of your assumptions and inaccuracies; so indeed it is relevant!

Serial 8. In your response on 18th Oct, you state " However, this forum is here to help, rather than criticise. " I suggest you practice what you preach otherwise you're coming across as pedantic, childish, hypocritical, petty minded, pompous and point scoring.

Serial 9. It is relevant to me and that does matter. Arrogance is not an attractive trait and you are being arrogant by dismissing what is personal and relevant to me. The situation does not belong to you and never will.

Serial 10. I'll stick to the professional opinions and valuations of 3 estate agents which are all in line with Zoopla thank you very much. I have not asked you to comment on the footfall of viewings to my property or your narrow minded assumptions. Whatever valuation my house is marketed at or the footfall is none of your business. I haven't asked for your opinion or theories on this matter, so please keep it all to yourself. I have copied my origional question to remind you of what was actually asked for:

"My question is, am I in a situation where I can demand 1 month's notice from her to leave in view of the fact my house is up for sale and she has allowed viewings? She wants to go immediately regardless of the tenancy agreement and she obviously couldn't give a damn about how I'm to pay the mortgage. What are my rights?"

Serial 11. Clearly your comprehension skills need to be addressed. I have accepted the DWP rules and processes whatever made you assume (yet again - always assuming) that I hadn't? I had not been looking for a tenant. She approached me. Having her as a tenant was a major factor in the delay of receipt of benefit and I could have resented her for that, but my altruistic nature got me through because I wouldn't see her homeless - fact!

Jeremy. We clearly will never agree. You have a completely different mentality to me and not one that I aspire to. Please stop this and let the matter rest. This is now quite tiresome and it is not doing either of us any favours. I have enough going on without without having to deal with this on top. I wish you peace in your life.

Hi Dawn,

My advice is to let her go and not worry about any notice period. It's not worth the grief. You'll find that in the landlord game, most landlords problems stem from not being able to get rid of tenants they want out. Life's too short to get wound up over one month's worth of rent.

Wish her good luck and then open a bottle of bubbly for seeing the back of someone whose relationship with you has broken down unrepairably.

-Armin

Thank you Armin. I have learnt the hard way that some people exploit others' kindness. I expected much better from someone who I had once considered a friend.

I will certainly crack open the bubbly once she's gone. I won't get sucked in by croccodile tears again; and I'll rise above Jeremy's comments.

Thanks for your reply