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Who is responsible for the repair of a dishwasher?

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Author Topic: Who is responsible for the repair of a dishwasher?  (Read 299 times)
Newbie
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« on: October 26, 2021, 01:37:08 PM »

Hi all,

Our tenancy ended 10 days ago and the check out inventory was done on that date. Yesterday, the landlord compiled a list of proposed deductions from our deposit(sent to us via email from the agent) and we asked for the undisputed amount back last night. This morning, we received an email reporting that the landlord had tested the dishwasher and that there was no power to it. The landlord has said that they don't know how much it will cost to fix but the next step would be to get an electrician to inspect it. The clerk did not test the appliance in the check in, nor the check out - and just noted the condition which was flawless as we did not in fact ever use it.

The landlord has asked for this item to be added to the list even though no sum has been quoted.

The relevant clauses from the TA are here:
"4.2. To pay to the Landlord the cost of any repairs of any mechanical and electrical appliances
belonging to the Landlord arising from misuse or negligence by the Tenant, his family, or his visitors

The landlord is responsible for:
"Other Repairs
5.1. To keep in repair and proper working order all mechanical and electrical items belonging to the
Landlord and forming part of the Fixtures and Fittings, unless the lack of repair is due to the
negligence or misuse of the Tenant, his family, or visitors."

As I've said, we did not ever use it so certainly did not do anything that  might be lased as misuse or negligence but the agent (the property was fully managed by an agent) has asked whether we know anything about the dishwasher.

We are very upset as this is a very late addition to the list.

Please could somebody kindly advise how to  respond to the agent in a way which makes it clear that we are not responsible for the repair of this item.  We have called the agent deposit team as the agent wrote to them asking for the undisputed amount to be released but we were told that they can't release it now due to this addition.

Thanks very much in advance.
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2021, 02:21:40 PM »

My view has always been that the purpose of a Check-Out is to check everything... everything you can be bothered about, anyway... at that time.

The Check-Out has been done, completed... it's finished, Elvis has left the building. You had your chance, Mr. Agent, you blew it. You had your chance, Mr. Landlord, you didn't take it. Tell them you'd like to go to the Deposit Protection Scheme's Dispute process as you have a completed (and signed?) Check-Out document that states "flawless"... do you? Well, the Check-Out certainly doesn't say "broken", right?

Take two-bites at the cherry? Not me, just the once, thanks.

Anything could have happened to the dishwasher in the 9 days since the Check-Out was done and you received this email. Go in hard...
Newbie
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2021, 04:07:43 PM »

Thanks very much indeed.
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2021, 04:38:19 PM »

The implication that you want to open a Deposit Dispute will possibly have an interesting effect... assuming everything was done correctly with the protection of the Deposit, the Landlord may decide to take you on, but the onus will be on their side to provide evidence... all you'll have to say is something like "it was always like that" - or "'we never once used it so cannot comment, but the Check-In and Check-Out both say it was fine"... but you'll have to initiate the process... so give them some time to reply, because they might just cave.

If everything wasn't done correctly with the protection of the Deposit... it might open up a whole can of worms at their side.
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2021, 06:20:41 PM »

I think they are trying it on.Even if you had been using it,things do break,and I can't see how the landlord can say it is as a result of your misuse.No power could simply be a fuse in the plug (assuming it was plugged in) You won't be expected to pay this if you contest it correctly.
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2021, 06:33:00 PM »

Agree with Heavykarma.  Simply state that you didn't break it and if after a period of you moving out it has stopped working then you are not responsible.  If they push it simply tell them you'll raise a deposit dispute.
Newbie
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« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2021, 02:52:07 PM »

Thanks everybody. It has now been over ten days since we asked for our deposit back and we still have not received a final list of deductions despite being promised one yesterday by the agents. The agent's deposit team is now away until Tuesday so it seems we have no choice but to raise a deposit dispute as we are having to communicate with the landlord via the agent.
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2021, 01:50:28 AM »

Hi all. We have raised a dispute with the the TDS and today received an "amended" check out report from the agents 3 weeks after the original one downgrading the property's cleanliness from good domestic clean to reasonable domestic clean and new notes on various dirty areas. The original check out report mentioned no unclean areas.
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2021, 08:50:43 AM »

Falsified documents?

Do you have the original? Happy days if so.

It'll all come out in the wash [programme].
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2021, 09:41:48 AM »

Jesus Mary and Joseph and all the 7 Dwarves!  Is there no limit to the pathetic tricks  some landlords will get up to in order to save a few quid. How can they change a report after 3 weeks? I despair. I don't think the penalties for non-protection are always fair to the landlord,but  can you imagine what landlords like this one would be like without legislation?
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2021, 11:30:03 AM »

Yes I have the original and I've written to the agent raising a formal complaint telling them that unless it's withdrawn, I would be complaining to the Property Redress Scheme.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 11:48:25 AM by suits »
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2021, 04:31:35 PM »

Why? It'll just assure, even more, your success with the Deposit Scheme? Let them shoot themselves in the foot... why help them out?
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2021, 05:30:50 PM »

Unless you intend reporting them to the Ombudsman,who will only deal with cases where you have tried the in-house complaints procedures,you are wasting your time and sending out the message that you are a pushover.All these complaint schemes,Ombusdman et al,are manned by shysters and ninnies in my humble opinion. 
Newbie
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2021, 06:54:14 PM »

They are not going to withdraw the second inventory so as you say I will use it to assure my success with the TDS. What is the best way to do this? Do I just submit the original and point out that the new one was sent to me 3 weeks later even though it has the same date?
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2021, 07:53:36 PM »

They are not going to withdraw the second inventory so as you say I will use it to assure my success with the TDS. What is the best way to do this? Do I just submit the original and point out that the new one was sent to me 3 weeks later even though it has the same date?

Yes.

But don't call it a "new" one. Make it clear that the agent "modified it 3 weeks after the inspection and issuing you the check-out inventory".

By the way, were these documents emailed to you as .pdf files? If so, could you open each in turn (in Acrobat or a similar PDF reader) and look at File | Properties. Please report here the Created and Modified date/times of each.

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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2021, 08:44:58 PM »

Thank you.

Inventory 1: Created:18/10/2021 - 12:45:32 (same for modified)

Inventory 2: Created:08/11/2021 - 09:25:09 (same for modified)
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2021, 10:14:07 PM »

Inventory 1: Created:18/10/2021 - 12:45:32 (same for modified)
Inventory 2: Created:08/11/2021 - 09:25:09 (same for modified)

So now you have proof of which inventory report is which and that the agent modified the report 21 days after first issuing it to you.
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2021, 10:22:05 AM »

New? No.
Updated? No.
Reissued? No.
Reversioned? No.
Modified? Possibly.
Falsified? Yes.
Full Member
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2021, 11:18:15 AM »

Just raise the dispute.  My guess is they'll back down as they won't want to provide documents showing the checkout report has been changed.
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2021, 11:48:29 AM »

According to the agent, the inventory clerk /company changed the report after being asked to do so following photos taken a few days after the checkout after the landlord and agent went to see the property and complained about the cleaning. However both inventories were emailed to me from the agent and not the inventory company (which the agent engaged).
The agent deposit clerk who sent me the new inventory said that changes to check out inventories were common.
 I raised the dispute nearly 2 weeks ago as the landlord had not sent a final list of deductions almost 2 weeks after the checkout. The deadline for ll/agent to submit evidence is in a couple of days. The agent deposit clerk who sent the modified inventory said that changes to check out inventories were quite common
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 12:15:28 PM by suits »
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2021, 12:59:27 PM »

I would guess that tenant's refusal to accept such changes is also quite common.
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2021, 01:36:57 PM »

Quite common for Agent chancers and mug Tenants, I'm sure.

I'm sure I've said this before... the opportunity exists for an Agent / Landlord to obtain the details they require of the state of a property... it's called the Check-Out. Not Check-Out plus 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 years. Simply put - anything could have happened in the meantime. Why are you procrastinating and giving their chit-chat any credence, your thing is already in progress, right?

If the Landlord / Agent wanted to check the cleanliness of the property at Check-Out then they could have. Otherwise they've given-up their right to complain further, later. Your tenancy ended. You no longer had access to the property... but that is not to guarantee no-one else did... who could've done anything.

Don't be a mug. Don't argue back and forth with the Agent unless you really think you can make them see sense (not many Agents can)... advice for everyone: just move to Dispute (as you have) and put them on the back-foot (as you have). Agents are stupid - but it's worse than that... they also think Tenants are stupid.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 03:27:21 PM by Hippogriff »
Newbie
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2021, 03:12:25 PM »

I agree that it sounds as though I have been procrastinating but I raised a dispute after 10 days which is the soonest I could have done and told the agent that I reject the changes. In my exchanges with the agent, I was able to discover other things to add weight to my case but I have been very firm with them and told them it was too late. I appreciate all the advice and thoughts of everybody on this forum and I'm very grateful.
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2021, 01:19:55 PM »

According to the TDS, the ll is only disputing around 100 and the undisputed 1500 has still to be returned to us. The full deposit has still not been sent to the TDS despite the elapsing of 10 working days and 3 reminders from the TDS
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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2021, 03:22:43 PM »

Um...

With a Custodial Scheme the Landlord would've sent the Scheme the Deposit when it commenced... so the Scheme would have it, and would have always had it.
With an Insured Scheme the Landlord would've kept the Deposit when you paid it to them and they paid the Scheme a fee... the Landlord doesn't now send it to the Scheme so they can apportion it to you.

Surely?

In any case, the un-disputed amount should obviously be returned... as it's not disputed... therefore it's yours.
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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2021, 03:37:38 PM »

According to the TDS, the ll is only disputing around 100 and the undisputed 1500 has still to be returned to us. The full deposit has still not been sent to the TDS despite the elapsing of 10 working days and 3 reminders from the TDS
On the insured schemes I'm pretty sure the landlord only sends the disputed amount to the scheme.
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2021, 05:44:09 PM »

The TDS said it was the agent they had written to as the agent holds the money as indicated on the certificate. The agent said they did not have the permission of the landlord to send it
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