UK Landlord Forum / Life

I am a statutory tenant since 1986, living alone, and am on a low protected rent.

I have no central heating and have resisted attempts by the landlord to install it as I genuinely fear that my rent could then be increased by the fair rent officer as a result.  I have written to the landlord on more than one occasional making my preferences clear but her continues to ask about this quoting some 2006 legislation saying it is required.

It goes without saying that if I could be sure that my protected rent could not be increased as a result, I would agree to its installation. Even if it is now required by legislation, can I legally prevent it being forced on me?

I am aware that I can just refuse access but unsure how long I could do this for before it would become an issue. Any advice would be welcome as I cannot find any advice from tenant help organisations that covers this scenario.

I can't say I have much sympathy for you.After 33 years your own income,whether earned or benefits,has presumably gone up.Would it be unreasonable if your landlord was granted a modest increase in what is for her an investment not a charitable project?
It sounds as if she has not tried to pressure you to move on,and she has every right to get central heating installed in her property.You really need to rethink your attitude.

Ouch!

Whilst it is true that she has never pressured me to move on in any way, my secure tenant's rights are not my fault. They are just the law.

I am well aware that my rent is considerably cheaper than the expensive local average and I can tell you that I appreciate that. What I don't appreciate is being forced to have an upgrade which I have made clear I don't want. I don't want the upset, the mess and I don't want a rent increase based on something someone else wants.

This was first discussed in 2003 and again in 2006 when I was offered gas central heating but had to agree to a £16 (I recall)  a week rent increase and I declined on that point. Now I am concerned that if I agree without without a specified cost, the Rent Officer could increase at any time in the future because of a material improvement.


PS I have never been out of work in my life and it's true that my salary has gone up with inflation. So has my rent as my landlord adds RPI increases every two years.

You said that were it not for a possible rent increase,you would agree to the installation.Have you tried to negotiate with the landlord,or are you saying that no increase will be tolerated? If you can't accept the small disruption involved,and won't budge from your position,maybe it is time to look elsewhere.Good luck in your quest for a perfect landlord and a modest rent.

I think I would be on the phone to Shelter... at least give them a go. They have a lot of good resources on the Internet and a number to call, I'd be interested to hear if they were of any help, in at least clarifying things for the OP. Failing that, you'd be thinking a Solicitor with at least a passing interest in property law would know about this, or be able to research it - or even be able to write a letter on your behalf setting the Landlord straight (if appropriate, and legal).

QuoteHave you tried to negotiate with the landlord,or are you saying that no increase will be tolerated

Of course. She just keeps saying that some 2006 law says a rented property must have adequate heating and I reluctantly agreed to electric storage heaters being installed (for no rent increase) because of this provided I didn't have to have them connected. These were installed about 8 years ago but remain unconnected at my request.

The landlord wrote to me before the winter saying she was not happy about various aspects of the property and wanted to do improvements including installation of gas central heating as every other part of the property has. I haven't replied formally yet but thought I'd get some advice first.

I have suggested that I would accept gas if there was no rent increase but she maintains the let is already running at a loss 

QuoteI think I would be on the phone to Shelter

Good idea. I'll ring them tomorrow.

Try to come across as normal when you speak to them... you can tell, from the responses here, that you come across as being all weird (you obviously think you're completely sane and that you have a valid point of view... it's just that others are reading what you've put and think you're kinda odd). Try to keep any crazy all bottled-up, inside.

Running water? From a mains supply? You've gotta be kidding me, I ain't having that... they put stuff into that! (They do!)

An inside toilet? No way, I prefer to do my business outside, in the fields and streams of the Peak District, as Nature (and God) intended...

Sure, I can agree that there's often progress for the sake of progress and, then, there's central heating... that's just... progress. Your Landlord sounds like a very nice person... enjoy paying more rent, it's both a privilege and a right.  Landlords are having a tough time, haven't you heard?

I'll get my coat...

Reading back, I can well see that I haven't been entirely logical, sorry. All this is just stressing me out.

All I want is to be left alone and keep paying my cheap rent and minding my own business.

Someone else has since pointed out that most tenants complain that their landlord won't do repairs and I'm complaining that they want spend money on the place. I can appreciate that looks a bit mad.

I fully admit that I don't want any reason for my rent to go up (who would?) and that is #1 in my mind. Not sure anyone would enjoy paying more ...... Rents around here are very expensive so I have to stay and sort this.


PS Shelter chat has been fully booked all morning so still nothing to pass on from there.

Many of us would like to be left in peace,and paying out very little for a roof over our head.Your landlord must be wishing this problem (and you) would just go away-such a tenancy can be nothing but a burden to her in all respects.If you really can't afford to live elsewhere,you must start to see reason.I wonder if you have been insulated from the real world,and the stress you are experiencing is because you feel your hermit-like existance is under threat.It is up to you to make some accommodation to your landlord.To refuse to even have electric heaters connected makes me wonder if you are obsessed with penny-pinching.How on earth have you heated the place?

I take on board what you say heavy but I think you are taking a bit of an excessively dim view of me.

I do not want to be a difficult tenant in any way. I genuinely don't. I just want to maintain the rights the law gives me at the least cost considering I have probably paid over £80,000 in rent over the last 33 years despite the rent I pay being well below market.

I know I chose to do this and I know the landlord isn't making much out of me* (not my fault) but I don't want improvements that will likely put my rent up. Yep, that could be regarded as obsessive penny pinching or just wanting to live simply and cheaply which is hardly unreasonable.

As for heating, I have an open fire and portable electric heaters. These suit my lifestyle better than the installed storage heaters which I have worked out would cost more and give heat out in a more uncontrolled way. My way gives heat when I want it.



* She says my let is currently running at a loss so why a landlord would want to spend money in such circumstances is a puzzle unless it is to put the rent up.

You mentioned that you have tried negotiating with the landlord.Presumably you made an offer of some extra rent,and she refused this? I realise this is your home,but for your landlord it is an investment,it could represent a big loss of income or pension money for her.For this reason she will want to keep the place in a decent state of repair,including normal home improvements.She has  legal right of access to do this, provided she informs you in advance.She may need to borrow against the house,or sell to another landlord with you in situ.You really need to sit down and talk this through with her,and if she is raising the rent you have to decide if it is still a bargain.An open fire and portable heaters could be considered uneconomic and  inadequate,and she may be unable to get the energy rating required by law.   

Sorry no, I haven't negotiated a change in rent, I just rejected any non-inflation based increase. The negotiating I referred to concerned the installation of night storage heaters and loft/floor insulation and the rejection of the offer of gas ch at a rent increase of £16/week (likely much more if this was done now)

To be fair the rent would have still been a bargain with this addition £16/week but I decided I didn't want to spend the extra so I agreed to the 'free' storage heaters being installed. I have managed to block their connection as I (not her) have to apply to my energy provider for a dual rate meter which I have chosen not to. She made it clear any charge the energy provider made for this service would be mine. As I don't want them connected as explained I have never gone any further forward with this.

Regarding access, I managed to speak to Shelter yesterday and they confirmed I do not have to give access for improvements and if she wanted to force the issue, it would have to go to court.

This advice from Shelter is contrary to what I have always understood.Others on here will know if there has been some change.It is not a situation I have ever been faced with in 20 years,I have always found  tenants only too pleased to get the place kept in good condition.

From Shelter :

"There is not a legal obligation for a tenant to allow access for what might be classed as 'improvements'

If the landlord wanted access to the property to put a new heating system in, they'd need to apply to the courts for an injunction. It would then be up to a judge if they thought it would be reasonable for access to be granted.

It is not possible to predict what the outcome of any court action would be. Ultimately it would be for the judge t(o make the final decision on the matter. If the landlord is successful in gaining a court order, you may have to pay costs."

I estimate your rent will have averaged out at £200 p.m.Is that about right? My studio flats are 495,and a lock-up garage I rent is £30pm. It is not just about what the law allows is it? What about personal ethics,do you feel good about going to such lengths to cause stress to someone who sounds as if she has behaved in an honourable way?

QuoteI estimate your rent will have averaged out at £200 p.m.Is that about right?

*It's a bit more than that.

Started out in 1986 at £150/month I recall, now £395 for 750 ish square foot 2 bed flat with private parking space. Yes, admittedly it's cheap especially as prices round here are high (mainly due to lack of supply due to National Park planning policy imo ).

I don't accept that I am causing stress however as I didn't start all this. I wouldn't have started any conversation about improvements and feel that the landlord has tried to pressure me to have upgrades I'm not really bothered about over a 15 year period. If the story that the flat is running at a loss is accepted, the only reason a landlord would want to do that is to put the controlled rent up.

Regarding personal ethics about living cheaply, there is more than one viewpoint on this. How about the fact that the estimated original value of this flat has been largely met by rent paid so far?  I am not stupid enough to dismiss maintenance costs over the years and likely finance costs of borrowing for the original purchase but why should a tenant have a conscience about living on a low rent if the total rent paid so far has largely bought the property? Surely the lion's share of the present rent is now available for improvements should this be the case and questions the belief that the let is running at a loss.

I am curious if you have asked for a reference to the "2006 legislation" your Landlord has mentioned? If you have that reference provided then maybe you could assess it yourself and decide - whether you want it, or not - whether the Landlord is correct in the assertion... if it does turn out to be something required by law then you might decide to respond differently, not be so steadfast in your refusal, finally realising that things aren't perfect, your Landlord isn't a bad'un, and Shelter's advice could be more geared towards what you'd consider optional improvements. That said, it might justifiably entrench your position. For one, it bounces the ball back to your Landlord.

There are certainly things changing all the time. EPC ratings coming into play and all that... there's always exceptions, like if the building is listed or something, but it's not usually the case that personal preference overrides law. Best of luck. Feel free to let us know what the legislation is if you get reference to it... there could easily be grey area a-plenty in it (but I don't want to search for said stuff myself).

Central heating was first offered in 2003 when she became my landlord. I wrote to her saying I didn't require or ask for any heating so nothing was done at that time.

A few years later she said that some new legislation called HHSRS (the part of that to prevent excessive cold) meant that I must have some controllable fixed heating rather than portable heaters and my open fire.

According to her, the minimum standard to comply with HHSRS was night storage heaters running on off-peak power but she really wanted to install gas ch if I would agree to the £16/week rent increase. I said again I couldn't afford any rent increase so the night storage heaters (and a lot of loft and floor insulation) were installed at no extra rent and wired up to my meter point but I had to arrange to change my meter with the energy supplier before they could be commissioned. I have chosen not to and all these years later the storage heaters remain new and unused.

If I had Shelter's advice then, I might have stopped them being installed as they taken up a fair bit of room and aren't the prettiest things. However I suppose that this might cause the landlord problems if she was seen to have done nothing following HHSRS.

I don't think the building is listed but I do know it is in a protected zone in the national park but nothing to affect this particular subject.