UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hello Everyone!

I'm after some advice regarding my situation with the landlord of a HMO I left at the beginning of the year, as he seems to want to keep hold of my deposit. Apologies in advance for the long nature of my post, but would like to give as much detail as I can.

I come across this feller on Spareroom when he contacted me about my advert, which stated that I was looking for temporary accommodation as I'm a contractor. After meeting him at his property and viewing the room, I moved in and was there for two months in total. His advert, at the time, stated that there was a minimum one month stay and that short-term occupancy would be considered. I was completely upfront about potentially being a short term tenant, on account of the temporary nature of my work as a contractor, and he was fine with this.

The house itself is an unlicensed HMO: all room have locks, no communal areas other than kitchen and bathrooms and the landlord doesn't live at the property. I wasn't given any sort of tenancy agreement to sign, so no minimum length of tenancy or notice period in writing. There wasn't an inventory made of the room condition and contents either. I've searched and also contacted the main three deposit protection schemes and it seems that my deposit wasn't protected.

After about three weeks of living in the room, damp patches started to appear on the ceiling which then turned into mould patched pretty quickly. I informed the Landlord of this issue by text message and we then spoke on the phone about it. Next day I received a text from him: he'd gone into my room while I was at work, seen I was drying clothes in there and basically blamed it on that and stated that he was only going to paint the ceiling with protective paint. I'm not sure where he expected me to dry my clothes really.  I wasn't happy with the fact that he'd gone into my room without permission and that he wasn't sufficiently dealing with the damp issue. I'd only dried two wash loads by that time anyway, so was fairly certain that it wasn't the drying clothes causing the damp. The room had felt damp in there all along, even when I wasn't drying clothes in there.

I sent the Landlord a text about a week later, giving him notice that I wanted to leave the property on account of the damp not being dealt with properly and that I didn't want to stay in a damp room. This gave him over three weeks' notice. He didn't seem particularly happy with this but accepted it.

I left the property at the beginning of January; left the keys in the room as he had asked and cleaned the room and left it in the same order I'd received it in. I had also paid my rent fully and on time and caused no damage in the room.
After two weeks of leaving the property, I sent him a reminder text about my deposit. Several days later, I received a reply basically saying that there was no deposit to be returned to me because he had had to redecorate the room. He also said that because of this he couldn't advertise the room and had suffered loss of earnings. He finished by saying that it had also been a minimum of three months tenancy. I've had no written request from him to make deductions from my deposit, only a text message.

I have a screen capture of his advert which shows a minimum of one month tenancy and short term tenancy consideration. He's since changed it to show three month minimum tenancy. I have digital photos of the damp, which only appeared on the ceiling and not the walls and I took a video of the condition I left the room in on my mobile phone. I don't have any photos of the room when I moved in though. I also have a text message from him where he admits that he's had to paint the other rooms in the house with protective paint. The evidence that I paid him a deposit is the bank transfer reference I used to pay him.

I was wondering if someone could tell me if he was supposed to put my deposit in a protection scheme, therefore falling foul of those rules? I'm not sure if these rules apply to my situation, because there was no assured short-hold tenancy agreement signed. I'd also like to know if the fact I gave him three weeks' notice and only stayed there for two months will go against me if this goes to court. I'm not sure if I've fallen foul of any tenancy laws myself, as there is potentially an implied assured short-hold agreement? I hadn't considered this at the time I'd given him notice.

Most of the communications between us occurred by text message and he never gave me an email address to contact him with. Are these text messages admissible in court or even the screen capture of his advert showing the one month minimum tenancy? There is a lot of detail about the date I moved in, confirmation of rent and deposit amount, property address, notice to vacate etc. in these text messages.

So that's my story really. I'm about to send him a letter asking to return my deposit to get things going, so if anyone is able to help me out with any information about all of this then I would be truly grateful.

Thanks guys!

Quoteall room have locks, no communal areas other than kitchen and bathrooms and the landlord doesn't live at the property

You almost certainly certainly had an assured shorthold tenancy. (This is a good thing here.)

QuoteThe house itself is an unlicensed HMO

Even better. (Now that you have left.) I am assuming by that statement that you are sure the property do require licensing.

QuoteThis gave him over three weeks' notice. He didn't seem particularly happy with this but accepted it.

Not ideal, as you'd want to have given a valid notice to quit, but not fatal if you can evidence that either the landlord accepted it or he took possession when you left so there's no question the tenancy is continuing.

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With no tenancy agreement and the way you describe things have been done, I assume no notice by the landlord of an address for service of notices in accordance with section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987. Technically, that would mean no rent was actually payable, but since you did pay it I'm not entirely sure you can recover it on that basis.

As an assured shorthold tenant, the landlord was required to protect your deposit and to give you certain information within 30 days of receiving the deposit. Failure to do so means he is liable to a penalty of between 1x and 3x the amount of the deposit. You have up to six years to make the claim in the county court.

As an occupier of an unlicensed HMO, you are entitled to apply for a rent repayment order against the landlord for the recovery of up to 12 months rent paid. You have up to 12 months to make the claim in the First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber).

The damp is possibly a disrepair issue, but with you only having been there for two months, I doubt it's an avenue worth pursuing.

Yes, text message, photos, and videos are admissible. Don't lose it, make backups copies of it. You'll want to use it if and when you go to court or tribunal.

Hi KTC!

Thanks for the reply to my post and for all the useful information, it's very much appreciated. So from everthing you've said, it seems that it's not going to go well for him if I take him to court and it would be in his best interests just to give my deposit back.

QuoteEven better. (Now that you have left.) I am assuming by that statement that you are sure the property do require licensing.

Well, when I moved in I became the fifth person in the property and a sixth person moved in after me. From what I've read online, it seems you need a license when you get to five people? I did phone the HMO people at the council offices. They seem to be 'aware' of this landlord and I got the impression that I wasn't the first person to phone them about him. I think they carry out inspections, but don't seem to be able to prove that he has to be licensed. The feller I spoke to said they're not allowed to look at his advert on Spareroom and check how many people he states as living at the property because it's classed as 'surveillance'. It was a bit weird really.

QuoteAs an occupier of an unlicensed HMO, you are entitled to apply for a rent repayment order against the landlord for the recovery of up to 12 months rent paid. You have up to 12 months to make the claim in the First-tier Tribunal (Property Chamber).

With what I've said above, and if I did choose to pursue this avenue of compensation, how would I go about getting this to stick at a tribunal? The council didn't really want to get involved, but they did say they were going to carry out another inspection of his property because of my call. It was like they felt he wasn't breaking any rules as they couldn't prove the amount of people living there?

QuoteNot ideal, as you'd want to have given a valid notice to quit, but not fatal if you can evidence that either the landlord accepted it or he took possession when you left so there's no question the tenancy is continuing.

When I say he accepted it, he replied to the text giving him notice and said along the lines of "If that's how you feel then fine". He never asked for more notice or complained about it. I didn't think about giving him notice in any other way as everthing relating to the tenancy had been really informally done, like no contract etc. I did ask him to call me about my decision to leave and tried to call him when he didn't initially reply to the notice text.

Also, I asked to meet him the day that I was to vacate the property to give the keys back and he stated that he wasn't in town that day and to leave the keys in the room, which I did.

QuoteAs an assured shorthold tenant, the landlord was required to protect your deposit and to give you certain information within 30 days of receiving the deposit. Failure to do so means he is liable to a penalty of between 1x and 3x the amount of the deposit.

I had read about this in trying to find information about my situation, but could never suss out if he was actually required to protect my deposit on account of not have a signed tenancy agreement. So is this a separate claim I would make against him, or is this compensation I would receive in addition to getting my deposit back, if I ended up having to take him to court?

Thanks again for your time and help, KTC.

Cheers.

Quote from: Argonaut1878 on February 14, 2019, 10:18:42 AM
Well, when I moved in I became the fifth person in the property and a sixth person moved in after me. From what I've read online, it seems you need a license when you get to five people? I did phone the HMO people at the council offices. They seem to be 'aware' of this landlord and I got the impression that I wasn't the first person to phone them about him. I think they carry out inspections, but don't seem to be able to prove that he has to be licensed. The feller I spoke to said they're not allowed to look at his advert on Spareroom and check how many people he states as living at the property because it's classed as 'surveillance'. It was a bit weird really.

With what I've said above, and if I did choose to pursue this avenue of compensation, how would I go about getting this to stick at a tribunal? The council didn't really want to get involved, but they did say they were going to carry out another inspection of his property because of my call. It was like they felt he wasn't breaking any rules as they couldn't prove the amount of people living there?

Yes, five persons or more in more than one household is a Large HMO requiring mandatory licensing.

The rules for RRO was changed so that a tenant can apply for an RRO without the council having gotten a conviction against the landlord first. Ask the council if they'll give you advice and/or assistance for an RRO application.

The standard of proof is beyond reasonable doubt though, so you'll need to gather some evidence. Do you have details of all those who lived in the property at the same time as you? The FTT is bear your own cost so you don't have to worry about paying the landlord's cost if you fail in your application, just the application (and if applicable the hearing) fee itself. If you win, I believe you can claim the fees from the landlord.

Quote from: Argonaut1878 on February 14, 2019, 10:18:42 AM
When I say he accepted it, he replied to the text giving him notice and said along the lines of "If that's how you feel then fine". He never asked for more notice or complained about it. I didn't think about giving him notice in any other way as everthing relating to the tenancy had been really informally done, like no contract etc. I did ask him to call me about my decision to leave and tried to call him when he didn't initially reply to the notice text.

Also, I asked to meet him the day that I was to vacate the property to give the keys back and he stated that he wasn't in town that day and to leave the keys in the room, which I did.

That's fine. You just need enough to be able to show either the tenancy was ended by your notice or there's been an implied surrender so the landlord can't turn around and claim the tenancy is continuing.

Quote from: Argonaut1878 on February 14, 2019, 10:18:42 AM
I had read about this in trying to find information about my situation, but could never suss out if he was actually required to protect my deposit on account of not have a signed tenancy agreement. So is this a separate claim I would make against him, or is this compensation I would receive in addition to getting my deposit back, if I ended up having to take him to court?

Tenancy less than 3 years doesn't have to be written. Generally, you have a tenancy if you paid rent for to right to live somewhere that you had exclusive possession of. It's assured shorthold by default.

You can sue for the deposit back either separately or together with the additional penalty claim. Suing for the deposit back is a simple moneyclaim through small claims process as money owed, whereas suing for the deposit penalty requires making what's known as a Part 8 claim. The court have the power to order the return of the deposit as part of the penalty claim, so if you sue for the penalty, you wouldn't have to make a seperate moneyclaim for the deposit.

Shelter has information on their website. You may well want legal help in making a claim.

Thanks for taking the time to give me all of this info, KTC; I'm very grateful.

I'm going to send the landlord a letter requesting the return of my deposit to get the ball rolling. I think it's how he replies that will ultimately decide how far I go down the compensation route.

Let's see how it goes.