UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi all.. I would be very grateful for some advice if anyone knows about this.

So, I viewed a one bedroom flat in Scotland that was advertised to rent on the OpenRent website. It said zero deposit, as is common with apartments in Scotland, just a month's rent upfront and there was no mention of a guarantor.

I was shown the flat by the landlord and agreed to take it. He said I can secure it and have it taken off the market by sending the first months rent, which I did later that day.

The next day I got a text from his ex-wife and business partner saying she sent me a WhatsApp message requesting details for the lease. In the WhatsApp message she asked for various particulars, including details of my guarantor. I explained that I do not have a guarantor. She replied that they would not usually accept anyone without a guarantor, but if I cannot supply one I could send a deposit instead. I responded that I was not aware they usually ask for a guarantor as it was not mentioned before, and asked how much the deposit would be. She said equal to a months rent.

As my natural inclination is to be agreeable, I thoughtlessly just sent a quick message to say "Ok, I can do that", before I had truly contemplated the change in circumstances. I spent the rest of the day mulling over the situation and decided not to proceed, given the additional cost.

Later that day I logged in to WhatsApp to inform her of my decision. However, she had sent me a message saying that the paperwork was almost complete, she was just awaiting next of kin/emergency contact details and the deposit from me, and that the start date of the tenancy will be tomorrow! The status of the flat on OpenRent had already been changed to "Let Agreed". I did not expect things would happen so quickly, since I had not yet sent the deposit or next of kin details, or seen a contract. I was a bit bewildered.

I sent her a message to say that, "After consideration, I have decided that I would rather take a property which does not require an additional payment of a deposit. I completely understand your reasons for asking for one, but was not expecting to pay the extra fee, which would double my up-front costs. Apologies for changing my mind on this after you have organised the paperwork."

Several days later, she has not replied to my message. She also seems to have blocked me or hidden her online status as previously it showed her on the app constantly, yet now it no longer shows when "last seen". And the rent advance I sent to their account has still not been returned.

My question is, have I actually entered into a contract making me liable to pay rent? Do the landlord/lady have legal grounds for keeping the months rent advance I sent to their account?

Another issue is that the flat is currently "Under Offer". IF I am liable for rent, will that liability cease once a let has been agreed with another party?

Thank you!

I am not conversant with Scottish Law, but the Scottish Citizens Advice bureau says


"A private landlord or letting agency might ask for a deposit to secure a property before you sign a tenancy agreement. It's sometimes called 'key money' or a 'holding deposit' and it's against the law in Scotland. This type of illegal fee is also known as a premium.   

If you paid a holding deposit, you should ask if it's refundable or if it can be used towards your tenancy deposit or rent."   

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/housing/starting-a-tenancy-s/problems-with-fees-and-deposits/


Now if you have not signd an AST then the deposit will be deemed as a holding deposit, in England such deposits are legal but restricted to one weeks rent under the Tenant Fees Act (2019) and you would lose that week's rent in these circumstances.

Howeve, they are pretty strict in Scotland when it comes to letting and tend to favour the Tenant.  The link above shows how to bring a simple claim, but start with a letter before action.

So what you need to do now is contact the original person you paid the money to and request the return of your money.

Dear Mr X

I am writing in regard to the property at 10 Downing Street, London SW1A 2AA which was advertised as not needing a Guarantor or Deposit. As you are aware I paid a holding deposit of £5999 to secure the property, however, when your ex-wife contacted me she demanded that I either I obtain a Guarantor or pay a Deposit.  I was going to agree to this and then found out it is actually illegal for you to request a holding deposit, even if you call it something else.

Please return my monies to the bank account listed below.

Please also consider this as a letter before action, if I am not refunded within 7 days I will commence simple proceedings against you.

Yours sincerely

Harry Smith

Bank code:20-20-20
Bank: Barlcays
A/C:  Harry Smith
A/C No. 999999999999999

"

 


   

Quote from: Yadayada on January 16, 2025, 03:20:51 PMHi all.. I would be very grateful for some advice if anyone knows about this.

So, I viewed a one bedroom flat in Scotland that was advertised to rent on the OpenRent website. It said zero deposit, as is common with apartments in Scotland, just a month's rent upfront and there was no mention of a guarantor.

I was shown the flat by the landlord and agreed to take it. He said I can secure it and have it taken off the market by sending the first months rent, which I did later that day.

The next day I got a text from his ex-wife and business partner saying she sent me a WhatsApp message requesting details for the lease. In the WhatsApp message she asked for various particulars, including details of my guarantor. I explained that I do not have a guarantor. She replied that they would not usually accept anyone without a guarantor, but if I cannot supply one I could send a deposit instead. I responded that I was not aware they usually ask for a guarantor as it was not mentioned before, and asked how much the deposit would be. She said equal to a months rent.

As my natural inclination is to be agreeable, I thoughtlessly just sent a quick message to say "Ok, I can do that", before I had truly contemplated the change in circumstances. I spent the rest of the day mulling over the situation and decided not to proceed, given the additional cost.

Later that day I logged in to WhatsApp to inform her of my decision. However, she had sent me a message saying that the paperwork was almost complete, she was just awaiting next of kin/emergency contact details and the deposit from me, and that the start date of the tenancy will be tomorrow! The status of the flat on OpenRent had already been changed to "Let Agreed". I did not expect things would happen so quickly, since I had not yet sent the deposit or next of kin details, or seen a contract. I was a bit bewildered.

I sent her a message to say that, "After consideration, I have decided that I would rather take a property which does not require an additional payment of a deposit. I completely understand your reasons for asking for one, but was not expecting to pay the extra fee, which would double my up-front costs. Apologies for changing my mind on this after you have organised the paperwork."

Several days later, she has not replied to my message. She also seems to have blocked me or hidden her online status as previously it showed her on the app constantly, yet now it no longer shows when "last seen". And the rent advance I sent to their account has still not been returned.

My question is, have I actually entered into a contract making me liable to pay rent? Do the landlord/lady have legal grounds for keeping the months rent advance I sent to their account?

Another issue is that the flat is currently "Under Offer". IF I am liable for rent, will that liability cease once a let has been agreed with another party?

Thank you!

Hi David,

Thank you so much for your response, I really appreciate it.

"If you paid a holding deposit, you should ask if it's refundable or if it can be used towards your tenancy deposit or rent."   

As mentioned in my post, the holding deposit is also first months rent, so it seems to be acceptable?

I have not signed an AST. I think the critical question is whether or not I have still entered a legally binding agreement by sending the WhatsApp message saying "Ok, I can do that"?

You have NOT entered an Agreement, because you have not occupied the property.

If you had occupied the property and paid rent then under the Property and Land Act (1925) you would have created a Tenancy, it would have no terms that a Landlord could enforce.

Since the Tenant Fees Act (2019) Landlords cannot take a holding deposit for more than a weeks rent, that is probably why he tried to call it a months rent upfront, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck, so it was a holding deposit.

Under Consumer Rights Act (2015) they can't change the terms or add new terms such as a requirement for a Guarantor or the taking of a deposit if they were not advertised before.  You have to get what it said on the tin.

As they have breached this law they must refund your money in full or offer to let you the property under the terms as advertised.
 
You said you "can" do that not that you "will" do that, many a case rests on one word, for example rent "will" increase by 5% per year.

Also you have not carried out the what was asked by the lady in order to contract.

Quote from: Yadayada on January 18, 2025, 12:34:56 PMHi David,

Thank you so much for your response, I really appreciate it.

"If you paid a holding deposit, you should ask if it's refundable or if it can be used towards your tenancy deposit or rent."   

As mentioned in my post, the holding deposit is also first months rent, so it seems to be acceptable?

I have not signed an AST. I think the critical question is whether or not I have still entered a legally binding agreement by sending the WhatsApp message saying "Ok, I can do that"?

Housing law differs considerably in Scotland with regard to deposits, landlords can charge up to 2 months rent (!)

The information on the Consumer Rights Act is very interesting. That looks pretty cut and dry to me. Should they attempt to keep the money or counter claim in any way, they do have a leg to stand on!

Yes, I did not fulfil the requirements proposed by the landlady for commencement of the tenancy.

A let has been agreed on the property with another party, and they still have not returned my rent payment.

I may have dodged a bullet by not renting from them, as their behaviour has been somewhat unscrupulous so far; violating the Consumer Rights Act and hanging on to my money until they are forced to give it back.

Thanks so much David, you have really put my mind at ease. A full months rent is no small amount for me to lose. It's very reassuring to know that I have a firm legal position to fall back on should it come to that.

This may also help

https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/accessing_accommodation/deposits_and_accommodation_agencies/unlawful_fees#where-a-fee-is-charged-but-no-tenancy-begins

Quote from: Yadayada on January 21, 2025, 04:04:15 PMHousing law differs considerably in Scotland with regard to deposits, landlords can charge up to 2 months rent (!)

The information on the Consumer Rights Act is very interesting. That looks pretty cut and dry to me. Should they attempt to keep the money or counter claim in any way, they do have a leg to stand on!

Yes, I did not fulfil the requirements proposed by the landlady for commencement of the tenancy.

A let has been agreed on the property with another party, and they still have not returned my rent payment.

I may have dodged a bullet by not renting from them, as their behaviour has been somewhat unscrupulous so far; violating the Consumer Rights Act and hanging on to my money until they are forced to give it back.

Thanks so much David, you have really put my mind at ease. A full months rent is no small amount for me to lose. It's very reassuring to know that I have a firm legal position to fall back on should it come to that.

Great news, the rent money has now been returned! And that information will be very useful for future reference, for myself and any others who read this, especially regarding the Consumer Rights Act and unlawful fees. Thanks very much, David.