UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hello Experts ,
                           I would like to know who is legally liable for the  Leak Damage Repairs , below is the email  conversation , I received from the property manager.

Dear XXX,
With reference to your email dated 3rd April 2015 according to the best of my knowledge I am not responsible for the water damage

Below are the reasons for the same

Only responsible adults are residing in the premises since July 2009 and there are no children, so I can confirm that the leak was not caused by a member of my family.

Since July 2014 you have called me 4 times that flat below has complained of a leak.  Every time you had our property checked by your builders and were not  able to find the source of the leak.
First Instance
Originally in July 2014 you made a case that the water had leaked from the bathroom because of water over flowing from the tub and leaking through the grouting by the following comments this was clarified by me email dated 31st July and subsequently you had approached me with the proposal that if I contributed half of the expense towards repairs we could avoid future leakage .Please refer to attachments,2,3,4, 5 6 (See list below) .As a gesture of good will I had agreed to pay £300, so that you will repair the grouting and also other things which I requested to be done and you had agreed.
1) All the washbasin, sink drains to be checked,
2) New shower curtain
3) Bathroom door screws or door to be replaced
4) Bathroom draws to be repaired
5) Mits room curtain to be fixed properly
6) Wall near the window to be scrubbed for mould and painted
7) Raj room patio door corner to be brushed and painted
8 Kitchen sil
9) Boiler door to be fixed
10) Kitchen sink trap to be cleared if jammed
I have made the payment, but am sorry to say that you have still not carried out the repairs promised 
Second Instance
Please refer to Attachment 7 dated 23rd October in which you sent a text of another complaint of leak from flat below again you checked and could not find the source of the leak.
Third Instance
Then in early 2015 there was complaint for a leak again, this time your builder suggested that the water was going through bathtub sealant below and you had got the seal replaced. At that time I had asked the builder to check the toilet washbasin drainage.  He took a look and told me he did not have time to open the sink drainage, but will confirm with you and come later.
Fourth Instance
A week after the repairs you had called me to inform that there was again a leak in the flat below.

Fifth Instance
Finally on 1st April you had called me and that again there was a leak below and that flat 112 was threatening legal action against you, subsequently you came to our flat  with  other people and checked everything  to find source of the leak  and later on in the day, you sent me a text (please see Attachment 9) requesting me pay the rent in advance so that the builder can do additional  investigation  by removing tiles from bathroom  and WC for an internal leak . As requested I had transferred the rent in advance.

On 2nd April without my knowledge or confirming with me you had directly called in the surveyor. Unfortunately due to prior commitments I was not able to be there so at the last moment I had asked my friend to be present.

The following had transpired in front of my friend initially, the survey team could not find any external source of the leak they checked toilet sink for over flow. The water was draining slowly.
So they started saying that since the water was draining slowly there is a possibility that the tap could have been left open and water could have been overflowed from the sink and this could be the source of the leak and later they opened the carpet and after that they stopped looking further for the source leak.

So the surveyor refused to pass the claim because of the possibility mentioned above, once again on the 3rd of April all the blame was again transferred to me. We have yet to see the report.

As you can see from the above this saga of the leak has been going on for a long time. None of the promises to carry out the repairs and the leak have been kept by the yourself.

In the above circumstances you cannot hold me responsible. I will treat this mail as evidence. If necessary I may take Independent Legal Advice, till date whatever complaints I have made you haven't taken any notice.

Please let me know if you require any other information

Kind regards
XXX

List of Attachments
2) Screenshot of text received on 5th September  with the proposal to carry out repairs jointly
3) Screenshot of text received on 6th September confirming what work will be carried out
4) Screenshot of text received on 6th September confirming additional work to be carried out mainly the drains which need checking
5) Copy of email confirming part payment and reconfirmation of all the works to be carried sink drains etc.
6) Screenshot of text received on 6th September confirming the time to come to take photos of the bathroom

7) Screenshot of text received on 23rd  October  informing me of the leak

8)Screenshot of text received on 23rd  October  confirming the time to collect balance cash on 24th of October

9)  Screenshot of text received on 1st April 2015 requesting the payment of rent earlier so that further investigations oculd be carried out to find source of leak by breaking tiles .

Manager Reply

XXXj good morning, you probably were made aware yesterday from your friend that the leak was caused by a member of your family in flat 116 leaving the tap on in the WC where it overflowed and caused serious damage downstairs, the surveyour deffintley insists this was the cause, im afraid the insurance will not cover this claim so the cost will be for you to pay, we spent over 3 hours plus.

1, suveyors fees to trace and find fault and repair
2, damage to flat 112 ceiling in inner hallway needs re plaster, reapaint bedroom, inner hall, lounge ceiling, and walls, repair damage caused to bedroom flooring, shampoo inner hall and bedroom carpet
3, mattress and bed damaged the contractors will look to clean however if not possible then a new bed will be required.
4, repaint water marks on walls and ceilings to flat 108

XXXj I would suggest you to pay a visit to flat 112 and flat 108 where both flats have been affected.

I have attached the photos

Regards

Final Manager Reply
WITHOUT PREJUDICE


XXX hope you are well, we have now the report and findings from the surveyors that attended on an emergency basis regarding the water damage.

Please see below analysis and works to be carried out and already completed.

The cost will be borne as you are the only tenants that occupy the home, its no fault of the the landlord or mine. During the time of our first inspection present were: XXX XXX XXX and his Team (4) , your friend and myself.

We have been informed by the owners at XXX that in the time they have occupied the home they have had constant problems with water from the bathroom and WC from you as tenants at flat XXX

They have consulted their lawyers and are NOW prepared to take further action with costs added against you, Mr XXX  has had enough and "fed up", may we remind you the landlord and I shall NOT be liable for any costs or action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Once the lawyers have been instructed Raj it will be out of our hands.

Not being rude you have rented the home for the last 3-5 years prior to that i rented the home out to various tenants with more occupants in the last 15 years and NEVER EVER have had issues with water to the flats below.

I understand that you have a friend staying with you too.

The owners at flat XXX wish to commence works ASAP as there an uneven floor in the master bedroom, and ceiling in the inner hallway which may possibly collapse, then there will be further repercussions.

We have been informed by Nick and his team that works can begin early next week for minimum 4 days to complete.

Flat XXX will require possible paint to ceilings and walls where water has caused damaged please note the above price does not include this as at the time of inspections we were unable to gain entry.

XXX we will require payment of £792.50 prior to works with balance of £792.50 on completion of works in CASH as stated above.

If you wish to take a stance and do not agree i would need to know ASAP as i have to give daily emails and telephone call to the oweners of flat 112 so they can take further steps.




Hi XXX,

Please find my report and costs as per you're text this morning.
XXX :

1.   First visit to trace and find water leak.
2.   To attempt to clear basin waste blockage, not successful on first visit.
3.   To temporarily secure non use of taps to basin until we re-attend to fix blocked waste pipe.

      

XXXk :

1.   Second visit to remove tiled boxed in section of waste pipe to gain access to the main connection in to soil pipe.
2.   To then clear blockage and cut out old waste pipe connection to soil pipe and replace with new and leave in working order.




Hi XXX,

Please find below our report concerning the water leak from XXX  into XXX.

Investigation and findings :   Thursday 2nd April 2015

1.   Upon our initial visit as dated above we carried out a trace & source inspection of previous water leak form flat XXX into flatXXXbelow.
2.   We did eventually find the cause of leak which was from the separate toilet room next to bathroom.
3.   The cause of leak was due to a semi blocked toilet room basin waste pipe which for some reason had been blocked by what appeared to be a residue of a DIY house filler or cement sediment not normally associated with every day household use. This in turn was not allowing the normal free running drainage of the basin sink.
4.   In our opinion the leak occurred when someone had turned on the basin tap and left it running to the point that the waste could not keep up with the flow of water which in turn allowed the basin to fill up and overflow for some considerable time.
5.   This in turn led to a large amount of water to leak through the floor down into the flat of XXXbelow causing the already noted water damage.
6.   The reason we believe this to be the case is because the occupants of flat XXXdescribed the leak to be as if a tap had been left on which in fact it had and then after some while the leak stopped suggesting that someone from flatXXX did notice the basin was overflowing and turned off the tap.

We always have to say in these situations that our findings are circumstantial and not definitive reasons but most likely causes given our findings on the day and passed experience.


I hope this report helps you resolve the matter and below is our quote to remedy the damage to flat XXX :


Flat XXX water damage repair quote :

1.   To remove all loose plaster to hallway ceiling as necessary.
2.   To inspect and rake out / repair any loose plaster to their toilet room ceiling as necessary and prepare for painting.
3.   To remove / set aside bedroom furniture to allow access to uplift carpet in order to remove all of the swollen wood flooring which has buckled up beyond repair.
4.   To supply and fit 3/4 inch ply, or same depth as original flooring,  to all areas where wood flooring has been removed, approx 5 Sq Mt.
5.   To reinstate carpet and bedroom furniture to original state.
6.   To plaster skim hallway ceiling to all affected areas ready for decorating.
7.   To apply two coats of white emulsion to all affected ceilings, hallway / toilet room and touch up bedroom ceiling.
8.   To apply two coats of Magnolia emulsion to all hallway walls.


Total Labour and materials   £1585.00 CASH


I am not in a position to pay this money as I have already paid 300 pounds for the same repair .

Please kindly Advice

Regards

xxx

I cannot read all that, digest it and give an answer. 

Could you ask questions?

There is a fault with the sink, in that the overflow, something designed to stop this happening, did not function effectively.

There are overflows fitted to all sinks as it must be a known fact that taps can be left on unattended.

This fitting is NOT your responsibility.

Although the person leaving the tap on is a Twat, when you let a property you have to assume a level of Twattiness, therefore its not your problem, the landlord should be insured for these instances, and you have already paid more than I would expect to get.

Quote from: boboff on April 30, 2015, 08:38:47 AM
There are overflows fitted to all sinks as it must be a known fact that taps can be left on unattended.

Not full blast indefinitely they can't.  An overflow isn't designed to take that much water.

That would be an ecumenical matter.


Or how much water pressure you have.