UK Landlord Forum / Life

I'm in a really tough spot and could use some advice. I paid 12 months' rent upfront for a flat that turned out to be a nightmare. When I moved in, I found mould on the walls, rust on the bed, and bug poison powder everywhere. The bed has been unusable since day one due to the rust and mould, and I've been forced to sleep on the sofa, as well as not really unpacking anything due to fear of it getting ruined by mould.

I've been trying to get these issues resolved, but it's been a constant battle. The contractor they sent out didn't even clean all the mould and the areas they did "clean" - they just painted over, and of course, the mould is already starting to come back. The property manager keeps telling me she's doing everything she can, but I've seen little to no action. The only time the landlord seems proactive is when the council has pressured her, but due to me refusing the contractors who just painted over the mould to come back the council cancelled their visit and I am basically forced to trust the contractors to come back even though they have shown they are incompetent.

I've already filed formal complaints with both the property manager and the estate agents, but I'm getting nowhere. Has anyone been through something similar? What can I do to get these issues properly addressed? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

You need to both let the landlord/agent try to resolve the issues. While their contractor may not be doing a good job, they're at least making some kind of effort, which is better than a lot of landlords and agents.

The council are your best bet, though. They can issue improvement notices that can be enforced.

But that does sound bad.

I agree,  you need to get back onto the council and request an inspection. It is not clear from your post whether they have already done this,  and if specific repairs have been formally required of the landlord. What was the place like when you viewed ? You could demand that the tenancy be cancelled, and request your deposit back, move out.   

I did write to the council within the first couple of weeks as the landlord was not arranging repairs and was not replying to the property manager. The council did call up my property manager and the initial repairs were then arranged by the landlord.

I then had an inspection arranged by the council as the contractors had not completed safe repair, but they cancelled it a few hours before because the property manager had told them that I was not allowing the contractor to come back and fix his mistakes. I was insisting on them to get a different contractor to come out as the previous contractor had clearly just painted over a lot of mould and rust without treating it, but the landlord refused and insisted it is him who comes out again. I have now agreed to this contractor to come out again as I have no other option and I have now been told he is on annual leave and they do not know when he will be available to complete the works.

Admittedly the place looked fine when I went for a viewing, although I regret not completing a more thorough check. Almost all of the mould had been hidden by furniture so unless I moved stuff around it was hard to see. I did question the Branch manager at the estate agents about this and he said that the estate agent and the person who carried out an inventory report must have missed it too much like I had.

Unfortunately I stupidly paid 12 months rent upfront so I think it will be a very difficult task to get this back.

Quote from: User12345 on August 27, 2024, 10:00:34 PM...due to me refusing the contractors who just painted over the mould to come back the council cancelled their visit and I am basically forced to trust the contractors to come back even though they have shown they are incompetent.

No. There's often a sliding scale of what you try in order to remedy a problem (some complicated heuristic involving time vs. effort vs. cost). You've broken that scale by thinking you know best. You are not forced to "trust" any specific Contractor, but you don't get to choose your own unless in exceptional circumstances. Try on a Reality Check for size, see if that fits you like it is bespoke, I think it might be. You have a Landlord who's attempted to send Contractors only to be met with an obstructive Tenant.

You do your part of things (be a Tenant) and let the Landlord do their part of things... at the moment you seem to be almost wanting to take on responsibility for both roles. You're a Tenant, realise your role and accept it (meekly if needs be).

You dont say how long youve been there, but I would suggest you speak to a solicitor about whether you might have a case to unwind the tenancy and possibly get your money back under consumer rights legislation.

@Hippogriff thanks for your advice. The contractors have came back and it seems they have painted over the mould again and not completed all of their jobs properly again. What would you recommend now?

Quote from: DPT on August 31, 2024, 11:28:47 AMYou dont say how long youve been there, but I would suggest you speak to a solicitor about whether you might have a case to unwind the tenancy and possibly get your money back under consumer rights legislation.

Thank you for the advice, I have been here for around 5 weeks and I will be seeking legal advice shortly.

Do it on Monday - for unwinding a contract 5 weeks is a long time (but they've been making poor attempts to fix things).

Local Authority environmental health and solicitor first thing.

Quote from: User12345 on September 01, 2024, 05:10:31 PM@Hippogriff thanks for your advice. The contractors have came back and it seems they have painted over the mould again and not completed all of their jobs properly again. What would you recommend now?

"...it seems..." from a layperson is not good enough, is it?

Firstly, good that you weren't obstructive this time (that will only frustrate the Landlord), but now you see what happens. Maybe the fix is good - maybe something new and special was used to paint over this time (you don't mention if you're aware of that - but it seems like you'd ideally like them to start by knocking a wall down or something). If it re-occurs then you report once more - but at least something is being done. Things often aren't fixed the first time. You aren't living in a hotel or some kind of bubble of immunity from housing issues. You can re-report issues to the Landlord, of course, but you will perpetuate the vibe I get from you. You can ask the Landlord what the next steps are, assuming the issue isn't fixed (or there are further issues you want looking at)... get ahead of the game. My response to you would be along the lines of - "you have finally let my workman back in, they tell me they've taken a run at it, let's give it some time and see what happens in due course" - then I'd hope to not hear from you.

The whole topic of this subject is bordering on hysterical - "nightmare". You just have some day-to-day problems coupled with buyer's remorse. Maybe you'll not make the same mistake again. Everything is a learning experience.

By "new and special" I mean... you can use a value primer or something wonderful from Zinsser to paint over various issues.

To the eye they might look very much the same.

In real-life they are very, very different things.

Hence my comment about "...it seems...".

If they have cleaned off the mould using a suitable product, then applied some anti- mould paint or primer that should work, and it' s what one should do. It's not clear, are you saying you saw them just slap  ordinary paint on top of the mould without any other preparation? How widespread is this mould ?

I know it is not ideal, but if you really don' t think you can get your rent back and move on,  have you bought anything yourself to wipe over the mould?  Even cheap bleach can do the trick if it is not caused by structural damage. 

Quote from: Hippogriff on September 02, 2024, 05:47:17 AM

Quote from: User12345 on September 01, 2024, 05:10:31 PM@Hippogriff thanks for your advice. The contractors have came back and it seems they have painted over the mould again and not completed all of their jobs properly again. What would you recommend now?

"...it seems..." from a layperson is not good enough, is it?

Firstly, good that you weren't obstructive this time (that will only frustrate the Landlord), but now you see what happens. Maybe the fix is good - maybe something new and special was used to paint over this time (you don't mention if you're aware of that - but it seems like you'd ideally like them to start by knocking a wall down or something). If it re-occurs then you report once more - but at least something is being done. Things often aren't fixed the first time. You aren't living in a hotel or some kind of bubble of immunity from housing issues. You can re-report issues to the Landlord, of course, but you will perpetuate the vibe I get from you. You can ask the Landlord what the next steps are, assuming the issue isn't fixed (or there are further issues you want looking at)... get ahead of the game. My response to you would be along the lines of - "you have finally let my workman back in, they tell me they've taken a run at it, let's give it some time and see what happens in due course" - then I'd hope to not hear from you.

The whole topic of this subject is bordering on hysterical - "nightmare". You just have some day-to-day problems coupled with buyer's remorse. Maybe you'll not make the same mistake again. Everything is a learning experience.

The paint used is poor quality and is peeling off in areas as it was last time. There were some mould specs in an area they had just painted days ago and that easily was wiped off using a damp tissue - some paint came off as well, so obviously this has not been cleaned properly if it is already coming through again. They have also lied about carrying out other works that they haven't done. The bed frame is covered in mould and rust and is unusable - again just painted over with the wrong paint. When I moved in there was significant mould, rust and bug poison everywhere along with other issues - it had not been cleaned from the previous tenants. This is not a hotel it is a home I have paid for, the landlord has a basic requirement to make it habitable, which they have currently failed to do, they have also been responsible for delaying repairs prior to this and only took action due to the council calling them asking them to. If there are structural issues with the flat causing rising damp or any other mould issues then I should have been made aware of this before I moved in and then maybe they should "knock a wall down" . The mould they had painted over last time was already re-emerging and a lettings agent who came around to do a "routine visit" tried to pin it on me in his report, so yes I am adamant about getting this treated properly. You are being very passive aggressive and making a lot of assumptions about me and my situation. The landlord was aware and had time to fix these issues before I moved in. If a bed frame being covered in bug poison, rust and mould is an everyday problem then I worry how you live your everyday life. If these issues all occurred once I had been living here for some time then I would agree that I was being hysterical, but these issues have been present since I moved in and the landlord has been very unresponsive and I have been met with evasiveness and lies every step of the way.

Quote from: heavykarma on September 02, 2024, 07:57:19 AMIf they have cleaned off the mould using a suitable product, then applied some anti- mould paint or primer that should work, and it' s what one should do. It's not clear, are you saying you saw them just slap  ordinary paint on top of the mould without any other preparation? How widespread is this mould ?

I know it is not ideal, but if you really don' t think you can get your rent back and move on,  have you bought anything yourself to wipe over the mould?  Even cheap bleach can do the trick if it is not caused by structural damage. 

The mould stains are still visible underneath the new coat of paint in some areas especially if you shine a light on it and it is also already beginning to come through in other areas it has been claimed were painted. They claimed to have treated, stain blocked and then painted (not anti mould paint).

The paint was peeling off the first time they had said they had cleaned it and you could see the mould was exactly the same as it was before underneath. There is mould in every room and some areas were quite significant.

As it is summer and the contractor claimed the ventilation system installed in the flat is capable of preventing mould in a 3 storey home, alongside the fact I always keep the windows open it worries me that it is already reoccurring in the areas they "treated". My main concern is that they have just painted over these areas so it is still present and they are not addressing the root cause, much like how they painted over the rusty bed frame (the rust bled through the paint within a couple hours after painting) yet that does not fix the underlying issue.

If I am unable to move and the landlord and council agree there is nothing else they can do then I will buy some spray and treat it properly myself.

Quote from: User12345 on September 02, 2024, 09:36:30 AMThis is not a hotel it is a home I have paid for, the landlord has a basic requirement to make it habitable, which they have currently failed to do...

That's obviously an opinion and is arrived at because you are guilty of aggrandising the problems you have. Uninhabitable is extreme. This basically all amounts to the fact you appear to be a fusspot trouble-causer with a great deal of regret to what you signed up for. If no-one can possibly do the job to your satisfaction take it on your own shoulders and then at least you can spend the rest of your time there in enjoyment, of sorts. This has to be better than the constant to-and-fro and better for your mental health. The money is a side-issue, really. It will leave a bad taste now, sure, but you won't even remember it in years to come - and you will learn a lot. Evidently you have been obstructive yourself but, you claim, also subject to delaying tactics... move beyond all this directly to a resolution that you're happy with.

Quote from: Hippogriff on September 02, 2024, 10:08:27 PM

Quote from: User12345 on September 02, 2024, 09:36:30 AMThis is not a hotel it is a home I have paid for, the landlord has a basic requirement to make it habitable, which they have currently failed to do...

That's obviously an opinion and is arrived at because you are guilty of aggrandising the problems you have. Uninhabitable is extreme. This basically all amounts to the fact you appear to be a fusspot trouble-causer with a great deal of regret to what you signed up for. If no-one can possibly do the job to your satisfaction take it on your own shoulders and then at least you can spend the rest of your time there in enjoyment, of sorts. This has to be better than the constant to-and-fro and better for your mental health. The money is a side-issue, really. It will leave a bad taste now, sure, but you won't even remember it in years to come - and you will learn a lot. Evidently you have been obstructive yourself but, you claim, also subject to delaying tactics... move beyond all this directly to a resolution that you're happy with.

You are right about the constant to and fro being stressful, but I disagree with every other opinion you have on the situation. You do not know every detail and you do not know the full story. You are coming from an emotional place, perhaps because of bad past experiences with previous tenants and you are projecting that onto me and acting as if you know everything that has or is going on.

Thank you for your advice, but I would appreciate it if you did not input again as it has been largely unproductive and I don't appreciate your passive aggression or belittling.

Sometimes it's the case that a Tenant like you fails to share all the appropriate details, fair enough - we often have to read between the lines here, we're pretty good at it - it's often the case that Tenants of your kind just expect everything to be find-and-dandy and go overboard when it isn't. If you want to go onto a forum and find kindred spirits, then this is not the place to search. You've been given advice - I suggest you take it.

As soon as I read that you took it on your own shoulders to refuse entry to Contractors and the Council cancelled their visit, while you write "formal" complaint after formal complaint to various parties, I knew exactly who you were. The emotive language you deliberately use throughout just backs this up... you are not in a "really tough spot" except in your own mind... what you have found is that you may have some unrealistic expectations and, now, whatever happens I reckon you will be continually dissatisfied... well, suck it up for the year ahead. 

Quote from: User12345 on September 02, 2024, 11:36:33 PMI disagree with every other opinion you have on the situation.

Of course you disagree. You will disagree with anything that doesn't fit your narrative and have missed the point that you being combative with almost every party you've come into contact with isn't actually seeming to help you. We all know people like this.

You (@User1234) need to contact the local authority again and keep chasing them until they send someone out to investigate. There's something seriously wrong with the property if mould is forming so quickly and so extensively. Moreso if there's some kind of "ventilation system".

A ventilation system to prevent mould sounds like a "Positive Input Ventilation" system, and they should keep most places mould free - and you definitely shouldn't need to keep the windows open.

I would repeat my suggestion that you need a solicitor, because you need to consider getting this contract voided for non-performance.

You need to act fast, otherwise you are going to be stuck in this situation or face a huge struggle to get your money back.

And you can't specify who replies to you on a public forum. You might not like what people post, but it doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid. If people don't know "every detail" or "the full story", that's hardly their fault.

Quote from: jpkeates on September 03, 2024, 10:23:10 AMYou (@User1234) need to contact the local authority again and keep chasing them until they send someone out to investigate. There's something seriously wrong with the property if mould is forming so quickly and so extensively. Moreso if there's some kind of "ventilation system".

A ventilation system to prevent mould sounds like a "Positive Input Ventilation" system, and they should keep most places mould free - and you definitely shouldn't need to keep the windows open.

I would repeat my suggestion that you need a solicitor, because you need to consider getting this contract voided for non-performance.

You need to act fast, otherwise you are going to be stuck in this situation or face a huge struggle to get your money back.

And you can't specify who replies to you on a public forum. You might not like what people post, but it doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid. If people don't know "every detail" or "the full story", that's hardly their fault.

Thank you for the advice I will be pursuing that option and yes it is a PIV, I have been told it would keep much bigger properties free from mould and damp but it is not.

Of course, I cannot control the actions of other people, if they want to continue to comment then they are free to do so.

A PIV should keep the place ventilated so that there's not enough moisture in the air to condense to allow mould to build up, particularly if the paint is designed to inhibit it as well.

People don't always like PIVs because they're always running and using power, so if it's been off for a while it might allow mould to form (and once there's mould it can spread pretty much regardless).

But if the mould is all through the property it doesn't sound like the damp's coming in through the walls from outside (and that's usually is less liable to form mould).

It's possibly worthwhile trying a different approach with the landlord. That amount of mould forming quickly will start to cause permanent damage to the walls, let alone the paint. It's in their interest to sort the problem out as well as yours.

I'd persist with the council and the solicitor to look at unwinding the contract.

In the meantime, have you tried a dehumidifier? You can usually rent decent units from tool hire places—or they're not that expensive. At least that'd give you some idea of how much moisture there is in the place because it accumulates in the dehumidifier.

I would stress that there's only one side of this story here... and even the side the OP has complete control over doesn't put them in a good light. Granted, there may be issues with the property, or the PIV system in-place... but the fact that Contractors have been sent numerous times (at least three) and there's even a PIV system present, indicates to me that the Landlord in question (or Builder) has taken reasonable steps to avoid things like mould. It can't proven that the PIV is working optimally, but at least it exists. I don't have a PIV in any property that I own - that's often one of the more final steps to take if there's a recurring problem that needs addressing. I'd be giving a very serious look into the old chestnut of Tenant lifestyle.

The other aspect is Tenant-approach... while it is said the Landlord-side has been "making poor attempts at fixing things" - why is there seemingly no recognition that the tenancy itself is only 5 weeks old and this Tenant has already escalated via numerous paths, to include the Council, and why is the assumption to jump to voiding the contract on the basis of non-performance? Timescales for addressing issues don't exist in legislation as far as I'm aware. The Tenant in this case has contacted the Agent, the Landlord, the Council (in the first few weeks!), has barred Contractors from attending - and that is why a revised approach with the Landlord will be beneficial - pick one target person and stick with them, build a rapport and try to get them to see your side, push the angle of longer-term damage to their asset, but there is a scatter-gun-of-dissatisfaction approach here that is all-too-clear to see... there's a massive amount of buyer's remorse as well... even though they admit to not checking things over the way they should. I suspect a level of desperation to secure the property in a rampant market.

Seems this Tenant is "forced" to do a lot of things they don't want to... how long before they create the situation in their head where they were forced to take the property off the market?

Quote from: Hippogriff on September 03, 2024, 12:50:50 PMwhy is the assumption to jump to voiding the contract on the basis of non-performance? Timescales for addressing issues don't exist in legislation as far as I'm aware.

Repuidiating a contract for non-performance isn't written into legislation, it's a common law process. And timeliness is a factor.

There are a number of other rights in consumer law, but the tenant's rights there are more aligned to compensation. There's a possible claim under the Fitness For Human Habitation regulations, and, again, living with a situation for a period can, clearly be an issue. It's hard to argue that somewhere can't be lived in if you're living there and have been for weeks now.

Voiding the contract is worth considering because of the payment in advance. That's a complicating factor on its own.

I agree with a number of the points you raise about the property itself. But I don't see how it can be "tenant lifestyle". I know it often is, but here, there was evidence of prior mould when they moved in. It feels like there's something seriously wrong with the property that the landlord has tried to address with a PIV. The tenant also says that they've been leaving the windows open. The airflow out must be remarkable, and for mould still to form means there's got to be a hell of a lot of moisture coming from somewhere.

Or there's a huge amount of damp in the place and it needs removing to give the PIV a chance. A PIV won't remove existing moisture, you need a dehumidifier first, then the PIV should be able to keep new moisture out.

The contractors have stated it is not anti mould paint. I was told the previous tenant did not use the PIV so this is probably why there was so much mould upon moving. I think you are right in saying though that if there is mould present already it will keep coming back, which is why I am concerned the contractors have not treated it properly.

To be honest I had already brought this up to the property manager - that it is in the landlord's best interest to get the mould issues dealt with properly, but I don't think this particularly affected things. Moving forward I think it might be a good angle to take though.

I am awaiting the property manager to contact me later today and then I will decide if I will get further council involvement or not, but I will be seeking out legal advice in the meantime. Or do you think regardless of what the property manager says I should be persisting with the council?

I am planning to get one this week. If it states the humidity is low, but mould keeps re-appearing would this indicate that it is a structural problem or is this unlikely to be the case?

My electrician says she discourages landlords from forking out for PIV systems, because tenants don' t like them and switch them off.

This query is puzzling, coming at this time of year.  If it's black mould,  that is nearly always caused by condensation indoors. The OP does not say how long it was between viewing and moving in. Assuming it was just a few weeks, with no one living there, it is hard to see how mould could run rampant in an empty property in summertime. Where did the condensation come from?  If mould was  hidden by a layer of fresh paint, I would still expect a mouldy smell from carpets and furnishings.

The tenant does not mention a tide mark on the walls, visible wet patches or signs of broken render or leaking pipes outside the place.  Very odd. Any evidence of storm or flood damage? 

Some photos might help members to spot clues. 














 

Quote from: User12345 on September 03, 2024, 02:51:29 PMI am planning to get one this week. If it states the humidity is low, but mould keeps re-appearing would this indicate that it is a structural problem or is this unlikely to be the case?

I'm not sure what "one" is referring to. If it's a dehumidifier, I'd guess it'll find a lot of moisture. But once it's gone, the PIV should keep it out.

Damp can be a structural problem, particularly if you're below ground level. But when water's coming in from outside, you can usually tell. It happens where there are gutters and cracks, or it comes up from the ground because there's a problem with a damp course (or there isn't one). But, usually, water from outside doesn't generate mould quickly, because the minerals in the walls and mortar aren't helpful for mould.

The presence of a PIV makes me think that the property is just an older building that was designed before lifestyles changed. And that the landlord thinks that will fix the problem, which it should.

It was 3 and a half weeks between viewing and moving in. There was food out of date by a month in the kitchen when I moved so presumably it was vacant for at least a month - a neighbour said they thought it was only a couple of weeks though.

In one of the corners there are areas that look damp, but to touch it feels dry. There was green mould covering a piece of wooden furniture also, but I presume this was still a type of black mould.

Now that you mention it, the contractors did tell me that there was a leaking pipe from upstairs when the previous tenant lived here and that they needed to replace the carpet, so if this was not fixed properly could be the cause of the ongoing mould? Although most of the mould is within two feet of the ground so I am unsure if that affects things.

A leaking pipe could cause the sort of issues you are describing. But even more likely is that the leaking pipe made everything wet and the property has been let out before the property has been allowed to dry out.

Drying out a property takes a long time (weeks and months) and many landlords have cut that particular corner, because an empty property doesn't bring in rent.

Mould being close to the ground makes sense  - if there was a leak that soaked the carpet, that's where the damp would have spread up from. You can buy moisture testers from DIY stores and Amazon, they're about £20 and that would help you tell which walls are damp - it's very hard to tell with your hands unless it's close to running wet.

A dehumidifier definitely sounds like the way forward (assuming the pipe's been fixed). It would also possibly explain why they're not using mould proof paint - there's not normally a mould problem, so it wouldn't make much difference.

Green mould typically forms on damp wood, black mould on wet walls.

Thank you, this is really useful advice.

It does seem as if this is the cause, I will buy some of those moisture testers and have a look, alongside getting a dehumidifier.

Quote from: User12345 on September 03, 2024, 03:08:17 PMIn one of the corners there are areas that look damp, but to touch it feels dry.

According to Amazon, I bought this back in 2014... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brennenstuhl-1298680-Moisture-Detector-MD/dp/B003CSNV2Q ...and it has worked very well for me. It beeps and everything.