UK Landlord Forum / Life

We (2 people) moved out of a property on 9th February 2017. Our deposit is held by the Tenancy Deposit Scheme.

According to our former letting agent, our former landlord is disputing the return of the deposit and saying that we "never paid water bills".

At the beginning of the three year tenancy, we tried to look into paying the water but were told by the water company that the bills must be in the landlord's name. This was confirmed by the company that managed the building the apartment is in. Our contract simply stipulates to pay "the necessary utility bills". For three years, the landlord paid the water bills and we never heard anything to contradict this. Even when there was a leak in the mains somewhere, he phoned the lettings agency and complained the bill was too high, so they looked into it for him. He never mentioned a word about us paying water bills.

Since it's over a month since we moved out, I've written to the agency to inform them that we'll be registering a dispute if the deposit isn't returned within a week.

We're just a bit nervous as to how this is going to go - any advice?

If there is a bill for a consumable, like gas, electricity, water... then the Tenant is usually responsible for that - unless it's specifically noted as being excluded in the tenancy agreement, or some other addendum / agreement.

What the water company said sounds strange to me... I have a variety of different property types let out, some are flats along with managing agents, and no water company has ever insisted the bill is in the Landlord's name, I wouldn't accept that anyway... maybe you were confounded by an over-zealous water company drone, maybe you didn't try hard enough? You used the water, surely you can guess how much it would have been for 3 years... maybe the deposit covers that?

Why would you raise a dispute if you secretly suspect that what you're now paying for is something that you should, really, have paid for all along? You might get lucky and the Landlord caves-in... but I wouldn't (especially if there's nothing in writing that says I've agreed to be liable for something a Tenant is liable for).

Only that, the landlord has been paying the bills for three years - knowingly - without complaint. This strikes me as very odd that he should suddenly turn round and say that it was our responsibility after all.

That's not a suitable excuse for not paying for what you've used, right?

You used the water. Water costs money. The Landlord didn't use the water.

Theoretically, but then why would the landlord pay them for three years?

I'm not here for a debate on the ethics of water bills. I want to know legally what my position is. If he's been paying it for three years that surely is a sign that he was willing to pay.

Not interested in ethics?

There's your problem, right there. Seeya.

You know, scratch that... don't you find it annoying how, these days, people seem to need to be told what's right and what's wrong? It's like they don't already instinctively know. It's like in every engagement or interaction they have with other people they're trying to figure out how they can get one over on the other party.

How were people like this brought up? If they told their parents that they were trying to steal from someone would their parents congratulate them on it? If they told their children that this is how you deal with people in life, would they consider it to be a good life lesson?

It's easy to steal from someone, I suppose, when your relationship with them is coming to an end... then you don't need to see them again. In terms of it being legal stealing or illegal stealing, I don't really care about the fine line between these two... I just say the water bill is a Tenant responsibility unless it is clearly written down somewhere that the Landlord would take this on - no assumptions, no grey area - do you have something in writing that says the Landlord is responsible for the water bill... if you do then you're legally - and morally - in the clear. If you don't then you surely know what your moral stance should be? Why should the Landlord lose-out financially because of your desire to do them over?

I would advise you to keep a civil tongue in your head to people you don't know and about whose situation you know nothing. Also maybe seek therapy for the chip on your shoulder you so clearly have.

I am reporting your post to the moderator, since it is nothing more than trolling.

You clearly know the bill for water is the responsibility of the person that uses it. And you clearly don't like that you should pay for what you've used. And you even more clearly don't like that you are being called-out for trying to wangle your way out of your responsibilities. Interesting, I think, that you've not tried to seek clarity on the matter before you were due to leave - you had 3 years, it's always convenient when someone else is paying, isn't it? - and it's always easier to steal from someone that you'll not see again.

Yes, you reported the post... to me!

Right from wrong... do you know what it is? If you claim you do then the way forward is very, very obvious. If you're truly in doubt then you've been brought up badly.

I especially liked the way you replied when I'd said:

"You used the water. Water costs money. The Landlord didn't use the water."

You replied with - "Theoretically..." - could you explain the theory here? 

When people have a fixed idea about how things should be, they don't like being told different. This is you.

Firstly, I'm eternally thankful that you're not *my* landlord. You must give your tenants hell.

Secondly, I'm only interested in the legal case, as a judge would be. I did not ask for your moral ramblings.

Finally, since you're so keen on knowing whether people have been brought up well or not, take a look at yourself, your attitude and your language. You've definitely been brought up badly if you think it's ok to talk to a perfect stranger (or anyone) like that.

Go and troll someone else. And get some anger management therapy. And some manners.

This is the last response I will make here with regards to you.

You noticed, obviously, that no-one else has piped-up to 'help' you?

That's because the question doesn't even deserve comment. You should know what the right way forward is.

I've asked whether you had anything written down that clearly states the Landlord is responsible for the water bill. You've dodged that question. Can we ascertain why? You've likely dodged it because it's not something that exists. You don't have that agreement. Therefore - all you are now is a Tenant who's trying to skip out on a tenancy leaving 'unpaid' bills. The Landlord is perfectly reasonably trying to offset something they've paid on your behalf, for simplicity, from your deposit. Why do you think you aren't responsible for paying for what you've used? It's beyond me. If I was your Landlord I wouldn't have allowed you to get away with this in the first place. Your water, your bill, your responsibility. Why should the Landlord lose out financially because you want to wriggle off? I would have you paying me quarterly, for the bill, plus a reasonable admin. fee for me having to molly-coddle you through your life.

Tenants! Can't live their lives some of 'em.

Quote from: jameso on March 13, 2017, 08:53:34 PMOnly that, the landlord has been paying the bills for three years - knowingly - without complaint.

Without complaint because he didn't think you would try to escape your responsibilities at tenancy end, being the reasonable person that you are?

Sorry I'm late: there was a queue for popcorn.

Reading between the lines, it's probably one of those cases where the landlord thought the agent was handling it and the agent thought otherwise. Raise your dispute and see what happens. If the impartial arbitrator sees it your way, then it's a bonus. If not, then you've lost nothing. After all, you went into the tenancy assuming that you'd have to pay for the water you used, so the worst-case scenario is that you'll turn out to be right.

Can I add my two pennyworth? Maybe this is an inexperienced/gullible landlord,who was taken in by the same wrong information.I once had some idiot from Severn Trent water insisting I had to pay for a tenants arrears,or risk court action.The landlord may have paid up,with the view that he would eventually deduct the costs from the deposit.If the tenant had ever rented elsewhere,he would surely have expected to pay this,especially as utilities are mentioned in the lease.Regardless of any confusion,the landlord cannot be expected to be out of pocket. There's no such thing as free clean water .