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Flat too hot

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« on: February 10, 2020, 09:29:42 AM »

Hi, I have recently rented a two bedroom flat in London for me and my family (my wife and newborn). When we rented the flat the letting agency said that the heating was included in the rent but failed to say that heating is not required ( we have not turned it on one single day in the last three months)  because the property is overheated by heat coming from hot water pipes and communal areas where the temperatures are above 30 degrees. As a result we are not able to adjust the temperature in the flat which is always too hot for us and for our two months old baby. At night we leave windows open but temperature does not go below 22-23 degrees. We are now concerned about our health as the recommend temperature during night should be 18 and we are not able to have it. And what will happen during summer? We have a two years contract with a one year break clause but believe that the le agency was not honest with us and has created a risk for the health of our baby. What would be your advice? Are there the basis for a legal action and to leave the flat without paying any exit fees? Also the agency should pay for our moving. Any advices would be much appreciated. Thank you.
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 10:25:37 AM »

https://www.dyson.co.uk/fans-and-heaters/dyson-cool-overview.html - problem solved.

No need to move. No need to cause a fuss. No need for legal action. Just crack on... and enjoy life... rather than having all this Renting Remorse.
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 04:57:08 PM »

Hi, sorry but this is not the sort of answer I am after.
Why should I use a fan, I want to leave in flat where I am able to adjust temperature.
NHS says temperature should not go above 18 at night, my baby is two months old and should be in an healthy environment expecially during her first months has she is still not able to cope with the heat.
My question was about the agency attitude, I believe that they should ha e been clear about this problem has it can affect our health and the baby.
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 07:33:19 PM »

Have you actually contacted the agency to discuss this? You may be the first person to complain,because what is too warm/too cold is down to personal taste.I visit one friend,and keep my coat on,another has a place so stiflingly hot I get a headache.I think what Hippogriff is saying is if you really like the flat,and no one else in the block is complaining,then a fan could be a practical solution.It will be cheaper to use than heating.If you really feel this is a health risk,you should phone the Environmental Health at your local council,to check acceptable temperatures in rental properties (only do this if the agency does not respond) They get far more complaints about cold and damp in this country.Be prepared for the landlord to give notice to quit when the lease expires. 
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2020, 07:42:33 PM »

Hi, sorry but this is not the sort of answer I am after.
Why should I use a fan, I want to leave in flat where I am able to adjust temperature.
NHS says temperature should not go above 18 at night, my baby is two months old and should be in an healthy environment expecially during her first months has she is still not able to cope with the heat.
My question was about the agency attitude, I believe that they should ha e been clear about this problem has it can affect our health and the baby.

Why are you making the assumption any Agency would have known this information? Agents - not ones I've seen anyway - do not generally go around with thermometers in their pockets. If you cared about such a thing to such an extent, then you really should have been checking for this kind of thing yourself. Why is it that people these days are always seeking to place blame onto others for errors of judgement and oversights they themselves are responsible for? You were obviously allowed to view the flat, you decided to rent, before you decided to rent it... that was your opportunity to check it meets your requirements, and - yes - to even ask questions if you are uncertain about anything.

Which of these things did you do? Could it be none?

I think you made a slip in your reply... when you said "I want to leave..." I think this is what you are obviously after... you probably have renter's remorse. That's OK, plenty get it - let's just hope you have only signed up for a 6 month fixed term agreement, not a 12 month or longer.

NHS guidelines are just that... guidelines... I can assure you that the Human Race has survived for generation after generation, always getting stronger, smarter, in all kinds of environments... plus or minus a few degrees... and for longer than the NHS has existed, that's for sure. People find ways of surviving... that's why Nature is beautiful.

Pragmatically speaking... why should you buy a fan? Because no matter what you do, it isn't going to have an immediate resolution and, if you're sooooo worried, then you really need to act now... I know how new parents can be... anything can be done for the young one... but you won't be getting out of your agreement and into a new suitable place in 72 hours, will you? So... fan.

And... maybe you're overreacting? Call the cops... twistin' my melon, man! I may sound like I'm joking... but if you're not willing to consider immediate remedy that you, yourself, have control over - you can't really think it that important, right? Our actions describe our attitude to things very effectively... "why should I [insert anything here]?" is a typical response from someone who doesn't take responsibility themselves.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 07:46:05 PM by Hippogriff »
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2020, 07:47:25 PM »

Why should I use a fan, I want to leave in flat where I am able to adjust temperature.

That's not an unreasonable idea.

What might be unreasonable is you not thinking about this, and not checking it, before you decided to rent the flat.  ::)
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 10:13:23 PM »

Have you actually contacted the agency to discuss this? You may be the first person to complain,because what is too warm/too cold is down to personal taste.I visit one friend,and keep my coat on,another has a place so stiflingly hot I get a headache.I think what Hippogriff is saying is if you really like the flat,and no one else in the block is complaining,then a fan could be a practical solution.It will be cheaper to use than heating.If you really feel this is a health risk,you should phone the Environmental Health at your local council,to check acceptable temperatures in rental properties (only do this if the agency does not respond) They get far more complaints about cold and damp in this country.Be prepared for the landlord to give notice to quit when the lease expires.

Hi, and thank you for your reply.
When I say it's too hot I mean that the temperature inside is abnormal considering this time of the year.
We have 25 degrees sometimes without using heating at all, even when outside there are few degrees.
These means that when the external temperatures will rise the internal one will be higher (given the lower dispersion) and will be close to the temperature in the hallway (close to 30 degrees).
I told the agencies but they said that they don't mention this as for them is not a problem but they aware of the overheating in the building as they manage over 60 flats in the development and actually their office is on the ground floor.
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2020, 10:39:21 PM »

Hi, sorry but this is not the sort of answer I am after.
Why should I use a fan, I want to leave in flat where I am able to adjust temperature.
NHS says temperature should not go above 18 at night, my baby is two months old and should be in an healthy environment expecially during her first months has she is still not able to cope with the heat.
My question was about the agency attitude, I believe that they should ha e been clear about this problem has it can affect our health and the baby.

Why are you making the assumption any Agency would have known this information? Agents - not ones I've seen anyway - do not generally go around with thermometers in their pockets. If you cared about such a thing to such an extent, then you really should have been checking for this kind of thing yourself. Why is it that people these days are always seeking to place blame onto others for errors of judgement and oversights they themselves are responsible for? You were obviously allowed to view the flat, you decided to rent, before you decided to rent it... that was your opportunity to check it meets your requirements, and - yes - to even ask questions if you are uncertain about anything.

Which of these things did you do? Could it be none?

I think you made a slip in your reply... when you said "I want to leave..." I think this is what you are obviously after... you probably have renter's remorse. That's OK, plenty get it - let's just hope you have only signed up for a 6 month fixed term agreement, not a 12 month or longer.

NHS guidelines are just that... guidelines... I can assure you that the Human Race has survived for generation after generation, always getting stronger, smarter, in all kinds of environments... plus or minus a few degrees... and for longer than the NHS has existed, that's for sure. People find ways of surviving... that's why Nature is beautiful.

Pragmatically speaking... why should you buy a fan? Because no matter what you do, it isn't going to have an immediate resolution and, if you're sooooo worried, then you really need to act now... I know how new parents can be... anything can be done for the young one... but you won't be getting out of your agreement and into a new suitable place in 72 hours, will you? So... fan.

And... maybe you're overreacting? Call the cops... twistin' my melon, man! I may sound like I'm joking... but if you're not willing to consider immediate remedy that you, yourself, have control over - you can't really think it that important, right? Our actions describe our attitude to things very effectively... "why should I [insert anything here]?" is a typical response from someone who doesn't take responsibility themselves.

Hi to you too!

The agency knows because also other residents have complained in the past about overheating in the building. We are in a FB page with hundreds of other residents. It is more a complaint book where many in the past have mentioned overheating and asked other residents the reason of this and what to do to manage it. The agents and their staff are active members of the group so they must have read the posts and the comments.

Viewing - a viewing can last 5-10 minutes and it's not easy to pick up all the problems and defects that could be in a property. It's a bet I know but problems like these should be mentioned.

I wrote I want to LEAVE but I meant i want to LIVE in a flat where I can adjust the temperature. We love the flat and would love to stay but I can't see a solution for this problem and a fan, as suggested by many, is not an ideal solution for a newborn as it's noisy and for sure not the best to have it on all night every night. Also it would work with the windows open maybe but during this time of the year it's impossible. Having a fan on may give the impression that it's cooler but if the heat stays inside the temperature would still be high and not ideal to sleep.

Just one sentence from the NHS website:
to reduce the risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), babies should sleep in rooms heated to between 16C and 20C.
What would you do for your baby?

I am not overreacting, what I am trying to say that many tenants don't get back from agencies and landlords (not all) don't repay good tenants who pay a lot of money (2,000/month) and take care of their properties.
This same agency is taking more than 3 months to replace gas piston in the kitchen cabinets (stay lift doors that don't stay lift so it's impossible to take stuff) or more than a month to fix the flush in one of the bathrooms.
I take my responsibilities very seriously, and my responsibility in this case is to pay the rent and take care of the flat and of my family before that.
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2020, 10:42:55 PM »

Why should I use a fan, I want to leave in flat where I am able to adjust temperature.

That's not an unreasonable idea.

What might be unreasonable is you not thinking about this, and not checking it, before you decided to rent the flat.  ::)

Hi

As I said it's not easy to pick up everything during a very quick viewing, notwithstanding this agencies have the obligation to be honest from my point of view as I am honest in my work and in whatever i do.
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 10:09:23 AM »

What would you do for your baby?

I'd buy a fan, or get some other - more immediate - solution, rather than wasting your time backtracking over problems you could've investigated from the outset (if you really cared like you pretend to). I know you don't want that answer - but it's a pragmatic one - you get the pressing safety issue resolved first, however you need to, and then take time to work out who's to blame (hint: it's not all "someone else" although you think this).

In actuality, you're going about everything you're doing backwards.
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2020, 10:13:26 AM »

As I said it's not easy to pick up everything during a very quick viewing, notwithstanding this agencies have the obligation to be honest from my point of view as I am honest in my work and in whatever i do.

Granted, but it seems terribly important to you... and I know that whenever I have viewed properties (for purchase, granted) one of the priority items is the heating system... whether there is a good boiler there, how the controls for it look (thermostat, TRVs on the radiators)... I might have trained myself to do this over the years... but I'm pointing out to you that you don't just turn up at a viewing and think that you like the current colour of the paint on the walls... there are more pressing concerns... and no-one (no-one) should ever be doing a 5 to 10 minute viewing... when I show properties to prospective Tenants it's 45 minutes each time... the shortest has been about half an hour. Regardless, you can get a lot done in 5 to 10 minutes still, so you should've had a check-list - you can't depend on other people to tell you every little thing about a property (good or bad) because there has to be some level of personal responsibility - which you don't want to hear.
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 09:03:12 PM »

Hi, and thank you again for all the replies.

May I ask to forget about mistakes ( mine and the agency's) and concentrate on the fact that the flat is hot. When I say hot I mean that it does not require heating and it's temperature is always above what I would like to have if I could control it through the thermostat, and what is recommended to have indoor.

My questions are:

Is this situation healthy or could be dangerous in any way?
What is the limit above which you would consider the temperature unacceptable?
Who should I contact to have an assessment and know if the flat complies with building regs or other regulation that apply to the case?

Thank you again.
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2020, 02:46:21 PM »

You mention other tenants are also bothered by the heat.Have they taken any steps to complain,or have you all joined forces ? I mentioned earlier in a response that the Environmental Health dept. will advise you on the safety aspect.It is impossible for any individual to say what the correct level of heating is,anyone who has ever had a partner will know how the sexes can differ. Some people will be delighted to have low heating bills.Is your wife equally upset about this, surely she will also have the welfare of the baby at heart?
All in all,I think you should hand notice in and look for somewhere else,when the lease is due to expire. In the meantime,get a fan to relieve your anxiety about the health of the baby.
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2020, 06:16:14 PM »

You should probably leave. You're not going to resolve all this and you'll be worrying all the time. Talk nicely with the agent and see if they'll play ball with you and agree an early termination date. Leave the place in good condition, then you can close the door and get on with your life.
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