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emails from landlords

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Newbie
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« on: July 15, 2022, 09:08:32 PM »

I would like to know if my landlord can ask me questions about my house purchase details directly by email.   I  want to know if I have to communicate with him at all by email and if I can refuse and only talk through the agents. thanks
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2022, 11:17:58 PM »

Anyone can ask you anything directly by email if they have your email address and you've not blocked them.

You don't have to communicate with anyone that's not some kind of legal (like the Police or HMRC) entity, about anything; certainly not a Landlord, or an Agent. You can refuse whatever you want. Why do you even need to talk to either about your house purchase details?

The question here seems odd.
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2022, 12:41:15 PM »

Generally, I would be mindful not to reply to an email that I should..

for example, if a claimant trying to bring court action or trying an out of court settlement with you - non replying (not communicating with them at all) might be considered as you  not being co-operative and other party may reply on this on court.

(but I am not a legal professional, just my thought)
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2022, 04:00:08 PM »

that is what a felt however  the information that the landlord is asking for I think goes beyond boundaries.    This is a long story.  I will be visiting a solicitor next week to go over this situation.   I have reached the point where any email from the landlord makes me anxious.  I  have already visited my general practice for help.

The landlord emailed us to say they were sorry but they were selling the property as they were going to sell it.  I showed interest in buying it .  They said that they have a lot to think about before they let me know a price.  I was issued a section 21.    I decided to look for somewhere else to live asap rather than wait for any prices.  I am married so we decided this would be an opportunity to look at buying rather than just renting again as we were finally in a position to do that.  So I worked in the evenings to find a house  I found somewhere and  put an offer in - it was tough because of the climate post covid but our offer was accepted.  That was on 17th March 2022.  On the 18th March the letting agent called us to say the section had been issued.  I was cross because it denied us sitting tenants rights etc.     I was aware that I had just bought a house at the same time.  So I told the lettings agents this.  and asked for time for the purchase to go through with no chain.  I got a reply saying the landlords didn't want to extend toe tenancy.  We didn't want to do that.  I explained that but it was not responded to.  So I sought legal advice as was told to fill in a  N11 form.  I did and sent it to the landlords.  They were not happy.  I asked my mortgage advisor and solicitor to create a letter to confirm that we were buying a house and so need some time for that rather than extend a tenancy.  They did this and from that point the landlords started contacting our service providers pushing them for a time and date and threatening them with reporting to the regulators authority and accusing them of misleading them with time frames . Totally distressing.  The landlords decided to write to me with 'without prejudice' at the top of the letter.  Not introducing what that was, I had to look that up to see what it was for.   They asked me how much time we wanted abut they were demanding and rude and I thought they were getting way with treating us badly as they know these emails could not be presented in court.    I forwarded emails from my mortgage advisor to update the progress of our buy so that they landlords could see we were being transparent about our affairs.  That made things worse and that was  when they started picking at the wording and saying that they were being misled.   After I forwarded an email and they started telling me I was misleading them, using the same format as the D11 form I was in a state.    I discussed not giving any information to the landlord with my advisor.  I thought the best thing would be to send them weekly updates that were brief and to the point.   I started doing that.  The the landlords sent me an email out of the blue saying they were disappointed that we had not been paying any rent.  That was odd because they had not accepted any money form us on the grounds of not wanting to extend the tenancy and that it would also nullify the section 21 notice.   I replied saying that we had been trying to do this how could we rectify this.There was silence.  So we made a payment through the usual channels to the lettings agency.   We discovered a couple of weeks later the silence was because the landlords had gone on holiday.  They returned and I got an email saying how it had been many many weeks  and that they were therefore taking court proceedings to evict which we should have been notified about
by then.  We had expected to leave at various points  : in May then in June the June date seemed definite so I had redirected our mail.  So we had not got the notice letter from court.  I contacted the court and explained that I had not got the letter that i could collect personally or they could send electronically.  They sent electronically.  I then found that the court proceedings was arranged on the day we had this email saying they were disappointed they had not received rent.  Looking into this they had mistakenly thought that we had to pay them a full months rent for our final rent payment.  In fact it was a half  of the month and the amount was given to us in the notice letters we received from the letting agents.  I was confused.  Looking into it it would appear that the landlords could not evict us just because they were selling their house.  They thought that they had found a way of getting us out with regards to not paying rent.  We had paid what was due.   We had taken the opportunity to pay rent for June and July so that we had peace of mind that we were paying for being here.  The money we paid was going into a reserve account though, because the lettings agents said that we did not owe any money up to the finish of the tenancy.  I had been updating the landlords whilst they were on holiday through the letting agents.   When they came back from holiday they claimed I was not updating the.  I explained I had and sent copy emails.  The next week they did the same thing.  I explained that I had updated with the agent again and added that we had our mortgage approved.  They jumped on that and wanted my provider to give them proof.  I felt that we were facing the same issue as at the start and I was in anxiety for the whole day - yesterday.  I talked to my husband and he said don't respond.   I talked to my brother who is on the committee for co-operative housing in London and he said that he didn't think they had any legal rights to any of my business.  I felt I had to be considerate with the landlords even thought they have called me names and almost derailed my house purchase.  I finally requested an appointment with a solicitor online and am waiting for a reply so that I can see someone in person.    I still want to be sure that not responding to any more emails from the landlords and only updating the agents is right and I won't fall into any other trap that they may think of.  Thanks for your time in reading this I hope that you can respond with advice . 
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2022, 10:51:43 AM »

This is very long and confusing to read. The landlord or agent seems to have some odd ideas that's for sure.I would concentrate your efforts on moving things along with your house purchase.Ignore all other communications from the landlord. You cannot be forced out of the house until you are able to leave.You should certainly pay your rent until you leave.
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2022, 11:18:54 AM »

You don't pay pro rata rent unless it's agreed.

If a Tenancy is not formally extended, but you remain in the property - then the tenancy has been extended (onto a Statutory Periodic Tenancy). This does not mean you don't pay rent.

Try to pretend there is no house purchase involved. You are just in a tenancy, until the time you are not. Keep paying the rent (in full monthly amounts, not pro rata by however many days) and let whatever happens in the other side happen when it happens. Stop updating any third party in this regard. Let them (Agent, Landlord) serve a Section 21 on you if they like... let it flow through the system... by the time that is actioned you will be long-gone. On the day you Complete on your new house - you still pay rent until the next rent boundary. So if you Complete on the 1st, and move in on the 2nd... and your normal rent payment day is the 11th, pay the full amount.

I think this should be OK as the other side served notice on you... I can't read in that wall of text that you formally served any notice to end the tenancy, either by letting it come to the end of the fixed term and moving out, or giving the "at least" one month notice required with a SPT. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2022, 12:19:50 PM »

thank you for your advice HIPPOGRIFF .  I understand the extended tenancy bit now.
They served 2 months notice with section 21 from a letter by their lettings agents,  I did not serve any notice. 

Also the court notice is about not paying the full amount of rent for the last due.  I think that is because they can't evict us just because they are selling the house.  The agents wrote to tell us the last payment was for  half a month  the landlords are now saying we should have paid the full month.  My question here is if I inform the court before the court hearing date that we have paid the right rent due as stipulated by the section notice letter (therefore have proof that their claim is not right),  will they cancel the court hearing? 
Thanks for the advice about paying rent.   We have managed to do this so far and will continue for our remaining time here.
I appreciate  your time and patience with my 'wall' of writing. 
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2022, 12:31:12 PM »

The section 21 was given from March to May.  W bought a house in March 17th the section 21 notice started March 18th.   
We have been going through house buying procedure since then. 
We tried to focus on leaving the last day of the section 21 but wasn't possible. 
I sent them an N11 and they sent an email saying before we do this can you give us a definite date of leaving. 
So we tried to aim for leaving on another date which was not met.   Landlords started bullying our service providers and us.   

continued on my first text.  Thanks.   
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2022, 01:17:17 PM »

1) You have not served any notice at all.
2) You have been served a Section 21 with "at least" 2 months notice.
3) There are other things going on.

For 1 and 2... a Section 21 does not have a date on it by which time you should have vacated the property. The date is for when the Landlord can commence further legal proceedings to take possession of the property. It's a sad state of affairs that this likely means many months before they are granted a Possession Order and, some time later, actually instruct Bailiffs. So, I would rest easy on that front. You just stay put in your home until the time you can Complete on your house purchase and then you move out. You don't need (you are certainly not forced) to communicate anything whatsoever about the transaction progress. Just ensure that you do finally communicate a hard date (with reasonable notice) so the Check-Out can take place adequately. Don't just abandon the property. Also (unless expressly agreed with the other side) always pay rent for the full month (period) - don't assume pro-rata.

For 3... surely if any outstanding rent that exists is made good now, the Court case would just disappear anyway? As there is no case to answer for outstanding rent. Why does there need to be any discussion on this aspect? Are they somehow insisting the Court case must proceed because, at some point, there was rent arrears and they are using this fact to accelerate an eviction? Therefore they want to see if that works-out? In a case like that, maybe you do have to attend... but I am unsure how likely that is to be imminent, and I would think if you explain yourself (any assumption you made) and prove there is no arrears at the time then the case for eviction based on rent arrears would just evaporate, even more so if you were able to explain the why of what you did... somewhat delayed house transaction.

Is that helpful or confusing?
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2022, 03:10:36 PM »

Everything you are saying is that is helpful.  I have emailed the court to say there are not arrears and they say that I should still attend.   I presume that relates to the section 21 was for 2 months from March to May.   Should i call them?   The claim for possession order is just that then.  I have to present a defense.  Should they cancel the court order?  On the claim for possession form the amount owing is not true we only had to pay half a months rent according to the letter we got from the agents.  The monthly rent amount is not right as its gone up several times.   They appear to be using this to get us into court as they cant evict us just because they are selling their property that has not gone up for sale nor has the property next door.   
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2022, 03:23:50 PM »

We have never had any outstanding rent for the 14 years we have been here,  even during Covid.  The landlord has outstanding repairs and maintenance from 2015 but is that academic because we are leaving?
The section 21 was from March 18th to May 19th.

Am I still expected to go to court because they have other grounds for kicking me out?  They said we can afford to leave and have added in the possession claim form what they think our financial position is.   
We were expecting to move in a couple of months because there was no chain either side.  It has dragged on and we are still here.  We don't want to stay here another minute and have been surrounded by boxes since May.  I have 2 sets of clothes all else packed, even the cat food is in an open packing box waiting to go.
I'm sorry for inconveniencing the landlord.  We have been totally open with them, it does not allow them to harass us or our service providers.  They claim that we have hindered the sales process and they were advised not to put the house on sale.  Totally untrue and hearsay.  Their rented house next door has not been put up for sale.   The landlords are treating us as if we are beholden to them. 
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2022, 03:43:51 PM »

I have never received documents from a Court inviting me to attend... but, surely, the documents contain the reason - whether it be for the Section 21 or, potentially, some Ground of Section 8? I don't think anyone thinks you'll turn up to Court for an unknown reason, right? However, asking you to present a defence gives quite a big clue, as a Section 21 has no defence (not required).

Once you know the reason you know your position. A day out to Court won't result in an immediate eviction even if it results in a Possession Order, so you will have time to progress your house purchase. No third party should be involved in the communications between Vendor or Purchaser and their professionals. If you attend Court answer all questions honestly and factually and whatever happens I expect you will get time - you will not be "kicked-out" as you hint at. Even if you don't attend Court the Landlord might get a Possession Order, but it doesn't mean they can act on it with immediacy.

I would concentrate on your upcoming move will sole focus. A Landlord trying to convince someone that a Tenant is hindering the process because they want to remain paying rent, when they have a house purchase in the works, seems a little bit far-fetched to me. But, then, your recounting of the situation is also all over the place, a bit. Just don't talk to the Landlord unless you choose to and ensure they are cut out of any other loops they are in.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 10:44:50 AM by Hippogriff »
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2022, 05:59:38 PM »

I would attend court to fully explain the circumstances. Do keep to the facts,and take along any correspondence or phone texts that are relevant. Failure to attend could have repercussions. You really should be putting all your efforts into putting pressure on the others in the chain,and the estate agents acting for you.Assuming contracts have been exchanged,something must have happened to delay things,and you need to be much more proactive in finding out what is going on.It would be perfectly reasonable for the landlord to want the house to be vacated before putting it on the market. Very few people would be interested in buying it with tenants in situ.
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2022, 09:00:13 PM »

I have read the rest of the court order and  the landlords are saying that we have told them that we have funds 'accepted'  then approved but we have not given them a leaving date.   We can only do that when we have one which is down to the solicitor meeting completion.    I have reached the point where I have told the landlords  - Friday by email after another intimidating email from them -  that  I will only communicate with their letting agents.  I have been updating the letting agent in order to stop the landlord from intimidating me to get dates and so on.  The letting agents have confirmed my emails every time and not demanded anything at all.   
I'm going to put together  notes and a defense tomorrow for the court hearing.  I have had some advice  - solicitor by phone - about telling  the court  when we could move out -  I will only get a rough idea from the conveyancing solicitor but that will hopefully help.   
 Sorry if this has been jumbled,  I am stressed by the whole thing.  There were a couple of issues delaying the process: one was the need for a physical valuing and the other was that the provider reassessed mortgage applications - our mortgage advisor said they did this because of the current economic climate.  We then lengthened our fixed term.  But the landlords do not have to know all our business.   I have just given them brief updates.
The landlords are complaining that we have not given them a full picture.  But we don't have to.  I am confident with that now.  I wasn't because I felt so intimidated.  I can show the court emails landlords sent me,  I do not have to give way to their demand for supplying them with proof of our funds from our providers.   I am also considering showing the threatening emails that the landlords sent the solicitor and  the advisor,   if relevant to this possession order application.
 If  a third party is not privy to our affairs then the landlords have been totally out of order. 
Thank you both for responding to me it is helping me get my head straight.  Sorry  if anything has not been clear due to nerves, grammar and not translating what is in my head onto 'paper' clearly - and anything else.
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2022, 03:22:36 PM »

court case - the landlord was trying to get me into the court to implement a section under the guise of rent arrears.  As there were no arrears that did not hold..  For that reason and various others such as wrong claim, the judge threw it out.   I have compensation.   Rogue landlords intimidating and trying to take control of tenants affairs.  The law won.
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2022, 04:45:53 PM »

Compensation, ey? That'll teach the Landlord. They must be spitting-feathers.
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2022, 05:32:39 PM »

Hope you are now able to stop worrying,and looking forward to moving house. I really don't know what the landlord and agent were thinking of,serves them right.
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