Deposit dispute

Good morning

Can I please be helped with some advices

There are 2 contracts signed over the property rented. First for Aug’19 - Aug’20 the other one Aug’20 - Aug’22.

The landlord has completely failed to register the deposit for the 1st contract and for the 2nd he did it late, 10 months after we signed the contract and only because I have insisted to have it registered with DPS as I wanted to provide the 2 months notice. He wasn’t aware we want to leave. I was said by him he has his own DPS…all kind of jokes.

I have tried to get legal advice but the amount of money I am asked to pay is between £1200 and £1700, while my deposit is £1610.

I was said by a lawyer I can take up to 3 times the deposit but I don’t really trust them.

What is your opinion ? What chances I have to win? And if It will be to sue him, when should I do it? Now, when I am still at his property or after I left and received hopefully my deposit in full?

Thank you

Thank you KTC for your reply

There is a break clause of 2 months, which I just provided to him on 16 of this month.

There are 2 contracts signed since Aug 2019, but I only payed deposit once, early August 2019.

Am I in right to sue him and ask deposit protection penalty for both contracts even though I payed only once the deposit ?

Thank you

When do you reckon I should act against him ? Now while I am still at the property ( until 16th of Aug ) or after I have left and got, hopefully, the £1610.

Even though I may get my deposit in full I still want to sue him. I have a few serious reasons for that.

I would wait until you have left.

This will also give you a better vibe... recognising you have other issues... as to whether the Landlord aims to be fair with your Deposit. Although, you seem to be expecting the Landlord to return the £1,610 without any deduction whatsoever... is that realistic (not many of my tenancies end with no Deposit deduction at all), or do you mean you expect it back in full because it wasn't properly protected?

There is no rush on your action. You have years to act. Best to do it after you leave the property. Maintain contact details and, likely, start with a Letter Before Action (templates available)... potentially avoiding any suing. Kicking things off while you're in the property is unwise in the extreme.

An Inspection is really only valid on the last day of the tenancy... or at a formalised Check-Out... not two weeks ago. Be careful to set your expectations appropriately.

From what you describe you certainly have a strong case.

I would take action, if I were in your position.

Yes, the deposit is deemed to have been repaid to you when the first tenancy ended and immediately paid by you back to the landlord for the second tenancy, so the requirements to protect the deposit applied again at the start of the second tenancy.

Hi guys

Got in touch with 4 solicitors and not one said I am in right to claim up to 3 times per contract, all 4 advised I can only claim once.
No one wants my situation on a no win no fee basis as the £4800 is too low

Am I having bad luck and this people are very busy for the moment or my case is so complicated and requires a lot of time ?

I didn’t send any letter to my landlord yet.

The pre-action protocol (i.e. letter setting out your position and time for discussion) *is* a required step. 

The case is fairly simple based on original description. The lawyers you spoke to couldn't have guarantee one penalty per tenancy as there's no binding precedent on this but they shouldn't have advise you it's not possible. Most (not all) people and prior court judgments agree that it's one penalty per tenancy.

Negotiation 101 says... ask for the maximum you believe is allowed, then open yourself up to "...reasonable offers to bring this matter to an end."

Personally, I'm a little soft... but you should probably start out by explaining to the ex-Landlord that it's the law that says "up to 3x per tenancy" and therefore at least suggest you'll definitely be seeking "3x for both tenancies, plus costs" but then make it really clear that if the Landlord has a suggestion to make, to avoid Court, you will be receptive. Because, after all, what you want is just... something, right?

Hi guys,

I have received an answer from my former landlord to my letter
Can I please have your opinion

“ Thank you for your recent letter.
Having met you at the property on Monday, 16th August 2021 for the property inspection for the end of tenancy I felt we had a pleasant meeting at the property.
However I am surprised to receive your letter regarding the rent deposit as you never mentioned during our meeting that you are going to put forward your claim. I feel this was a missed opportunity for us to discuss this matter during our last meeting if you had concerns.
I would like to correct the information which you previously misunderstood regarding my DPS membership account. Please note I hold an account with DPS as a landlord where I deposit all the deposit funds for my properties.
If you think you have a case to pursue in court then I am happy to stand in front of the Judge to provide evidence of my DPS account.
Furthermore, you may be familiar with the case of Okadigbo v Chan, 2015. This case sets out how the Court should exercise its discretion regarding deposit counterclaims. The behaviour of the landlord is taken into account and I will highlight that the following factors will work in my favour to reduce any award made to the lowest possible amount. These factors are:
That I have been a landlord for over 20 years with no such other claims having been made against me
I have a dedicated bank account to store my deposits in and the DPS automatically protect all deposits within that account
Please write directly to my solicitor on the following contact details, should you wish to procced with your claim.”


It doesn’t make sense what this guys is saying regarding his account with DPS. If he has whatever bullshit he’s saying, why then he has protected my deposit with DPS when I have insisted to have it protected otherwise I’ll sue.

At the commencement of the tenancy everything should have been provided to you regarding your Deposit. This is known as the Prescribed Information. It tells you everything you need to know about your Deposit - where it is, how much it is, when it was protected, how you go about a Dispute etc. etc. etc..

If you don't have that then the Landlord has already failed in their obligations.

Now, as you are aware, you can go to the Deposit Protection Schemes (all of them, there's only 3) and check for your Deposit. You just need to enter a few details... it's very simple. For example, at the Deposit Protection Service... you can go to https://myaccount.depositprotection.com/#tenancy/checkDepositStatus and enter the details... do whatever you can, they don't need to be perfect... it does a fuzzy search for you - I just tried for one of my properties (deliberately not getting some of the stuff exactly correct) and it'll come back with something like - "A deposit matching your search is protected..."

Do this until you find it... if you can't find it then it wasn't protected... but that only confirms what you know, right?

It is irrelevant whether you had a good discussion at your last meeting and you didn't raise this (that's a guilt-trip attempt).
It is irrelevant how long he has been a Landlord (but if he didn't protect it then he should know better).
It is irrelevant if he's had no previous cases raised against him (all his other Tenants might have been schmucks).
There is no such thing as "automatic protection" of Deposits within a separate bank account. Every time a tenancy commences the Landlord has to do some admin., nothing is automatic.

The Landlord sounds shady... but we only have what you're telling us, obviously. I would progress this... but ensure you do your due diligence anyway.

Personally, if I was formally going to court and not just thinking about it, I would get formal written responses from the schemes confirming the lack of protection rather than just relying on the websites. The websites good but not perfect, and for court you want to be sure. That said, it is for the landlord to prove it was protected, not for the tenant to prove a negative, so take my opinion as what it is, an opinion from a random stranger on the internet.

If you have instructed a solicitor, let them handle it, stop talking to the landlord without the solicitor involvement (if that's what you've been doing). Make sure you comply with the conditional fee agreement with the solicitor. You don't want to accidentally do or say something that put you in breach resulting in you having to pay the solicitors fees yourself.

Please do let us know how it ends.  Too often people come on here for advice and we don't get to know the results.

....I will highlight that the following factors will work in my favour to reduce any award made to the lowest possible amount.

I still do think it might be worth pointing-out directly... that a) the Landlord here appears to admit that they accept an award will be made... and b) the lowest possible amount for non-compliance is still 1x per tenancy... not £0.

If you both happened to want to settle out of Court for that (or something that adds in some extra costs or something) wouldn't that be a win... and avoid any lost winnings / fees going to Solicitors? It feels, to me, like this Landlord needs to be able to take any emotion out of the decision... make it a simple numbers game.

Please do let us know how it ends.  Too often people come on here for advice and we don't get to know the results.

Hi guys,

As I promised here I come with an update. My solicitor has sent a request for x2 per tenancy, around £6500.

Today we have received LL’s solicitor reply, which you can find below.

“Whilst it is accepted that the facts in your chronology are accurate and that our client failed to comply with the relevant deposit protection legislation, we refer to the case of Okadigbo & Anor v Chan & Anor [2014] EWHC 4729 QB which sets out the factors that the Court may consider when deciding to exercise their discretion as to the value of a deposit claim.
 
Factors that we consider to be relevant here are:
 
Our client has a 20+ year history of managing multiple properties; he has protected deposits on all of these tenancies and this is the first time anything like this has occurred.
The reason why the deposit was not protected is because our client’s agents, , accidentally transferred the deposit to the wrong bank account. Our client has a special bank account for deposits and any deposit that enters that account is automatically registered with the DPS. Had our client’s agents transferred the deposit to the correct account then it would have been protected within the requisite timescales.
As soon as our client became aware of the problem he immediately moved the deposit to the DPS account and thus protected it.
The deposit has already been returned to your client without deductions.
 
We consider our client to be at the lowest possible end of the culpability spectrum and so expect the Court to make the lowest possible award. We further note that you expect this matter to fall within the Fast Track; notwithstanding the value of the claim would not exceed £10,000, we would nevertheless request that it is dealt with within the Small Claims Track as liability has been admitted and the issues to discuss are straight forward. Costs would be sought within the appropriate track.
 
Accordingly our client is prepared to make the following offer in full and final settlement of this matter:
 
1x the value of the deposit, per breach, for a total of £3,300.
 
Our client has indicated that he will not improve upon this offer and is prepared to go to Court if this offer is not accepted. Accordingly the offer does not have a time limit though may be withdrawn if proceedings are issued. We reserve the right to show this letter to the Court in the event that costs are discussed.”


A lot of bullshit. That 2014 case has nothing in common with mine, the deposit was registered with DPS the very next day after LL came for an inspection and I threatened him I will sue if my deposit is not protected. The fact that the deposit has been returned in full proves what kind of a tenant I was, the LL has no merit into this.

That description of the DPS account they claim they have, makes me wonder if this people ever used DPS, if they know how it works. His reply frustrates me a little bit. Can you really lie to a judge like that?