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HMO: can I demand to know the name of any person who visits a shared property?

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Author Topic: HMO: can I demand to know the name of any person who visits a shared property?  (Read 253 times)
Newbie
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« on: August 15, 2021, 12:44:25 AM »

Hi,

I asked a question yesterday which seems to have been deleted as I can no longer find it on the forum. Please can you tell me who deleted it and why because I had follow up questions and am not sure what I did wrong.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 08:14:17 AM by Hippogriff »
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2021, 08:10:40 AM »

I have checked the Moderation Centre and there is no record. I did not delete anything. Please do feel free to ask your question again.
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2021, 05:18:58 PM »

For what it's worth I didn't delete it either. It's possible one of the other moderators did. It was only two posts deep the last time I saw it, then at some point yesterday the OP made a complaint about it but by the time I read it the whole thread had vanished like an old oak table.
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2021, 05:26:29 PM »

Not me.
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2021, 11:29:23 PM »

Could be the Internet Secret Police... they had become involved.
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2021, 12:11:51 AM »

True, although I doubt they'd have swung into action that quickly on a weekend ... unless it was Officer Jimmy Hill.
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2021, 03:48:54 PM »

Could be the Internet Secret Police... they had become involved.

What does that even mean or is another attempt at humour? Surprising how a thread gets deleted but none of the moderatos know why.
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2021, 04:00:55 PM »

You should use your time more wisely. I already called you out as an incorrigible timewaster. Try your hardest to change your behaviour and prove me wrong.

We didn't say we didn't know why. We said we didn't delete the thread.
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2021, 09:19:42 PM »

You should use your time more wisely. I already called you out as an incorrigible timewaster. Try your hardest to change your behaviour and prove me wrong.

We didn't say we didn't know why. We said we didn't delete the thread.


Hi Hippogriff,

I have never been called an incorrigible timewaster before and you don't seem to appreciate how offensive you are being towards me. I joined this forum on Friday just a matter of a few days ago and to ask a reasonable question and the very next post on that new thread was from you and mocking me. I responded in a polite manner as I just wanted an answer to my question so please can you confirm how that makes me a timewaster?

I didn't delete the thread and if no moderators deleted the thread then hopefully the site Admin can investigate so please could you raise this issue with the site admin? Maybe they can check audit trails, firewall/database logs.
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2021, 11:19:53 PM »

My guess is the site Admin have better things to do than investigate this.  I assume none are getting paid for this.

Why not just ask your question so members can either help or at least answer your question?
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2021, 11:31:08 PM »

Why not just ask your question so members can either help or at least answer your question?

Be careful, the OP has a almost brilliant knack of wasting people's time - don't get involved is my advice. The question was answered already, assuming it's the same one - the answer wasn't the one wanted.
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2021, 12:08:10 AM »

My guess is the site Admin have better things to do than investigate this.  I assume none are getting paid for this.

Why not just ask your question so members can either help or at least answer your question?

Hi Inspector,

thanks for your response and I agree site Admin may have better things to do. I raised this post because I am genuinely at a loss as to what happened to a thread I put in some time creating on Friday. No time wasting intended and other moderators should not be calling me an 'incorrigible timewaster'. It might be a free service with volunteer moderators but there are rules against moderators behaving like Hippogriff has. I'll wait to see if the site Admin responds to me about that and have retained screenshots of the entire thread.

My question was:

My tenancy agreement makes no mention of a monthly inspection visit by the landlord's agent so I had no knowledge of this when I moved in and only after moving in did I discover there is a monthly inspection of my flat every month. I've put up with it because the inspection takes a matter of seconds each month but I'm starting to wonder why I cannot just do this inspection myself.

Is it common for a letting agent to be performing fire alarm and inspections of every room including tenants personal rooms in a property every month? It seems excessive and quarterly inspections sounds more reasonable.
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2021, 12:47:12 AM »

My question was:

My tenancy agreement makes no mention of a monthly inspection visit by the landlord's agent so I had no knowledge of this when I moved in and only after moving in did I discover there is a monthly inspection of my flat every month. I've put up with it because the inspection takes a matter of seconds each month but I'm starting to wonder why I cannot just do this inspection myself.

Is it common for a letting agent to be performing fire alarm and inspections of every room including tenants personal rooms in a property every month? It seems excessive and quarterly inspections sounds more reasonable.

If I recall correctly (and judging by the thread title) your original post was more concerned with whether you're entitled to know the name of the contractor. This is a slightly different question. I'm assuming you're on some form of assured shorthold tenancy. As such, you have a common law right to quiet enjoyment of the property. However, your landlord (and his agents) has the right - and indeed the responsibility - to maintain the property, which includes ensuring that the fire alarm systems are in good working order. In the case of an HMO, that responsibility is considerably more exigent than it is for an ordinary dwelling. Whether it's necessary to check the system on a monthly basis would depend on the type of HMO and, indeed, the type of fire alarm system: it's not really an area that I have much experience in. However, your landlord (or his agent) evidently thinks it's worth forking out for a contractor to go round and test the alarms every month. It's a minor faff. I'd just choose not to let it bother me.
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2021, 01:36:30 AM »


If I recall correctly (and judging by the thread title) your original post was more concerned with whether you're entitled to know the name of the contractor. This is a slightly different question. I'm assuming you're on some form of assured shorthold tenancy. As such, you have a common law right to quiet enjoyment of the property. However, your landlord (and his agents) has the right - and indeed the responsibility - to maintain the property, which includes ensuring that the fire alarm systems are in good working order. In the case of an HMO, that responsibility is considerably more exigent than it is for an ordinary dwelling. Whether it's necessary to check the system on a monthly basis would depend on the type of HMO and, indeed, the type of fire alarm system: it's not really an area that I have much experience in. However, your landlord (or his agent) evidently thinks it's worth forking out for a contractor to go round and test the alarms every month. It's a minor faff. I'd just choose not to let it bother me.

Hi Simon,

Thanks and when you put it like that I can see it a bit more from their perspective but it's still not answering my question about the legal aspect. I re-worded it a bit from my post on Friday to try and make it more to the point as I have a habit of making posts much longer than they need to be.

My issue is that there is no mention of monthly inspections in the legal document I signed and when I asked for more information I was sent documents copied from my local council website which are not mentioned in my tenancy agreement so it's my understanding they have no relevance. I don't know why they sent them to me and felt like I was being fogged off when I pay them 700 a month so just wanted some advice.

I've also attached a screenshot of the reply I got from Hippogriff yesterday on my first post. If there is no formal procedure for complaining about the conduct of a site mod or admin at landlordforumproject.co.uk I suggest implementing one.
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2021, 08:31:01 AM »

HMOs are subject to more stringent requirements than a typical house. HMOs are also often likely to be in Selective Licensing areas (because it's generally also more likely that HMOs are in areas that might require that - not always, of course). For a normal house a Landlord has to do things like smoke alarms, recurring gas checks and electrical checks... but then pretty much leaves the Tenant to get on with life. In an HMO (whose population is also likely to be more peripatetic) the requirements to check things... things like fire alarms, maybe even fire escapes (for obstacles and suchlike). This is what you are experiencing.

The Agent may have sent you some Council documents that explain this fully. You don't appear to have read them because it feels like you think your tenancy agreement overrides anything else. It doesn't. Yes, you signed an AST of some time... but that doesn't override statute, nor does it need to specifically refer to statute... for example... if an AST tried to override your rights as to serving notice - it wouldn't be valid. If your AST tried to have the Landlord "opt-out" of various obligations - it wouldn't be valid. And, there's the crux, because there are no absolute standards across all the Councils in the UK as to how they handle HMOs and Selective Licensing - it is not possible to say what you are being subject to... just that the Agent is happy it's valid as evidenced by them pointing to some Council documents (and you are not). You have probably not been fobbed-off - you have probably been provided with the information you needed - you just don't seem to have absorbed it and want to continue the good fight. The reason you can't do the checks yourself is because you're not qualified! What an amazing perspective you have. If I could get my Tenants to do the Gas Safety Certificate every year... would that remove my obligation? No.

As I've pointed out to you before... you need to stop looking for your legal silver bullet. All you are going to with it (if you find it) is cause trouble. That much is obvious. That you are trouble-causer and a timewaster is as plain as day. I've seen this - now and again - from posters who I can now sniff out. Everyone is against you, no answer is good enough, but you never stop... you never just accept that what you want isn't out there. Rather than be pressing a bunch of Landlords for a tightly defined legal answer you can use to beat someone up with... why don't you spend some of your money talking to a Solicitor and see if they'll help you beat someone up?

Please be aware - when I say you are going to cause trouble if you manage to uncover the legal point you want to achieve... I mean for yourself. You live in an HMO. That's one step below renting and one step above lodging. You have rights, sure... but you also have the chance of being moved-on, possibly with a less than glowing reference, if you rock the boat too much and, yes, cause trouble.  I have advised you live with it. Someone else has advised that you live with it. On the face of it you are railing against something that takes up "a matter of seconds" every month! If you want a more controlled environment, you don't want to be living in shared housing that is often subject to these kinds of intrusions.

Just step back and think about your complaint. Stop wasting everyone's time.
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2021, 08:33:38 AM »

I had updated the title of this thread from "missing"... but I see that your question has now morphed. You now have two answers to two questions that I know you don't like / want. Time for you to look elsewhere for the answer you want to get.
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2021, 08:36:59 AM »

My issue is that there is no mention of monthly inspections in the legal document I signed and when I asked for more information I was sent documents copied from my local council website which are not mentioned in my tenancy agreement so it's my understanding they have no relevance.

Your understanding on this specific point is 100% wrong. This is like you saying if the tenancy agreement you signed was silent on gas safety certificates or Deposit protection then you'd think they wouldn't apply.

Of course they would... things that aren't referred to in a tenancy agreement can still be relevant to your existence.

My already-out-there tenancy agreements do not mention EICRs... I still had to do them, and make arrangements, and pay the money, and allocate time and share the output.
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2021, 09:06:09 AM »

I don't really understand this.  The landlord has strict rules to follow regarding smoke alarm testing and the agent has sent you council information on what they need to do.

But you think this is overruled by the fact it isn't in your tenancy agreement? It isn't.

It sounds like you want a level of quiet enjoyment that goes above what you will get from living in an HMO.  If your accommodation isn;t suitable for you then move out.
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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2021, 10:10:29 AM »

I know I should not continue this thread,but I can't stop myself.First point,we have all heard of the horrendous and dangerous conditions HMO tenants experience at the hands of greedy slum landlords.I would be grateful that my landlord was taking his duties seriously,and paying out good money to keep me safe.
Secondly, what possible difference would it make to you if you were told the name of the person? He/she is not making a social call,they probably don't know  or want to know your name.You make no mention of any damage,theft or disrespectful behaviour arising from their brief visits,so why are you upset about this? As others have said,if you won't tolerate this, then you should be paying out the extra money to rent somewhere alone. 
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2021, 05:29:50 AM »

I had updated the title of this thread from "missing"... but I see that your question has now morphed. You now have two answers to two questions that I know you don't like / want. Time for you to look elsewhere for the answer you want to get.

Hi Hippogriff,

I've got the help I was looking for from other people so just wanted to say thanks to them and not to you. I joined here asking for help and not to be mocked by a moderator suggesting I am wasting time on my first post. If you remove all my reactions to your antagonistic posts there would be no time wasting. In future you should not be so quick to give warnings and instead at least discuss it first or show just cause. A drop of empathy would also help.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 09:57:44 AM by Hippogriff »
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2021, 10:07:54 AM »

It is great that you have got the help you were looking for. I think it will be the same outcome for you, though, as I've stated all along... you need to move on and not waste your time (and that of others) on something that takes up "a few seconds every month" - this is your own quote. This is a level of OCD that is hard to understand for a normal person - that you could even begin to resent something like that and want to demand the name of anyone visiting is alarming. You live in shared accommodation - there has to be a realistic expectation of intrusion - the fact that you like your privacy is neither here nor there when you have decided to live in that environment. Everyone here has said the same thing to you. You seem to think that they haven't and this baffles me even more - thank the others if you will, but they only matched what I said... there are things Landlords / Agents need to do, if you can't be pleased / grateful that they're doing these things to keep your home safe, then - please - move on to somewhere else (for your own happiness).

Your pushback against me is proof you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 11:06:21 AM by Hippogriff »
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2021, 10:43:42 AM »

Given this all started with a question about demanding to know someone's name, it's quite amusing where it ended up!

For what it's worth, we already knew all we need to know about who Hippogriff is ... and now we know all we need to know about who the OP is.
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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2021, 10:48:52 AM »

Given this all started with a question about demanding to know someone's name, it's quite amusing where it ended up!

I know! The OP obviously could have just done it himself... without anyone's agreement.
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2021, 09:47:10 PM »

Hi all,

Just to confirm, I deleted the original thread, and to be honest, I'm baffled that the OP (Dennis) is questioning why it was deleted, after s/he has lodged two separate complaints.

I quote, "I am making an official complaint to the abuse officer of your ISP.", so clearly not happy with the service/feedback. On one hand, he wants to report abuse, on the other, he's confused to why the abuse was completely removed.

I thought I took the obvious step by deleting the thread. Above all, surely I spared some poor soul (the "abuse officer") having to waste their time on this.
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2021, 10:12:39 PM »

I firmly believe that I can take a real run at being Abuse Officer.
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2021, 11:41:52 PM »

I firmly believe that I can take a real run at being Abuse Officer.

Are you not a little over-qualified though?
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