UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi, welcome any guidance on this topic...

Just over 2 weeks ago I reported (via email) 2 steps of internal stairs needing repair, also advising that my father in law had stumbled on them due to them being unstable. I lifted the carpet and took a pic and sent to letting agent.

After phone calls and further emails the agent advised their carpenter was on holiday which was reason for delay. I asked them to send someone to at least make it safe even if someone had to come back for a proper fix.

Myself and husband had been lifting the kids over the worst damaged step until today when our 5 year old attempted it by himself without our knowledge.
He fell down the gap (see pics) and ended up in A&E to have a wound (caused by exposed screws) glued and sticky strips/stitches applied.

How would you take this forward?

UNABLE TO ATTACH PICS

Without seeing the photo it's hard to comment.

My first thought is that I'd do everything possible to protect those in my own home, especially the children.

So, becoming aware that the agents preferred contractor was on holiday (perfectly reasonable) and they were unable/unwilling to get it fixed using a different contractor (unreasonable), I would have notified them that you were going to attempt a fix in order to try to protect others - again, without seeing the pics - couldn't you have obtained a piece of hardboard and hammered it onto the stair to cover the hole?

Nothing was done by any party and your child suffered an injury.

You could sue the Landlord and I'm sure get a few quid - but you'd probably lose the Tenancy faster than you received the payout.

Personally, I would write to both the agent and landlord to express how disappointed you are with their lack of action and explain that your child suffered as a result.

Depending if you like the property/area etc etc I would politely explain that another tenant in this situation might make a claim but you don't wish to go down that route, but if you do have to report a danger in the property going forward you would like it to be handled promptly.

I would contact your local authority's environmental health department and ask them to investigate the safety issue.

A carpenter being on holiday doesn't excuse anything.

I am not sure what you mean by moving this forward? I certainly would not advise anything that could cause bad feeling,like contacting the local authorities.At least,not if you are otherwise happy with the property.

It can be very difficult to get tradesmen or even handymen,especially for small jobs like this.In the landlord's position I would have come round to make it safe until the carpenter arrived.In you position with all due respect I would have made it safe myself before even contacting the landlord.

If it has not been done by now maybe you could get someone to do the job,and pass the bill to the landlord.Luckily no one has been badly hurt,these things do happen to owners and tenants alike.Hopefully it can be dealt  with amicably.

JPK is spot on, get the Council in there and explain how your child has already been to A&E as a result.

Inform the Landlord, their residential address should be in your Tenancy Agreement, if it is not ask your Agent for their Address and do a Land Registry Search for Title deed.

The Council may issue an improvement order, if they can't do it promptly then ask them to consider putting you up in an AirBnB until they have.

You might want to put a stair gate at top and bottom until works have been completed, although some 5 year olds would simply see this as a challenge. 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/repairs-and-housing/repairs-and-housing-conditions/getting-help-from-the-local-authority/local-authority-help-with-repairs-notices-and-orders-under-the-housing-health-and-safety-rating-system/

Quote from: SamH on September 07, 2024, 05:39:00 PMHi, welcome any guidance on this topic...

Just over 2 weeks ago I reported (via email) 2 steps of internal stairs needing repair, also advising that my father in law had stumbled on them due to them being unstable. I lifted the carpet and took a pic and sent to letting agent.

After phone calls and further emails the agent advised their carpenter was on holiday which was reason for delay. I asked them to send someone to at least make it safe even if someone had to come back for a proper fix.

Myself and husband had been lifting the kids over the worst damaged step until today when our 5 year old attempted it by himself without our knowledge.
He fell down the gap (see pics) and ended up in A&E to have a wound (caused by exposed screws) glued and sticky strips/stitches applied.

How would you take this forward?

UNABLE TO ATTACH PICS

Quote from: SamH on September 07, 2024, 05:39:00 PM...when our 5 year old attempted it by himself without our knowledge.

So, the upshot of this is that you were well aware of a risk in the property but were negligent with your child.

A road is outside the house... but it's a risk I'm aware of and I just wouldn't find myself in the position of a five year old attempting to cross one without my knowledge. A pond is just outside the house, but I wouldn't ever find myself in the position of a five year old attempting a dip without my knowledge.

Known risks are known risks - wherever they might be.

You don't need to be Donald Rumsfeld to differentiate unknown unknowns from all the others.

That said, in my experience, stairs don't break very often... so I would be genuinely worried about all the others too.

You can't live in a two story property and just not use the stairs for a few weeks.

A road or pond outside your home you can choose not to cross or engage with at all. That's not true of stairs.

You can't just elect not to use half of your home for a while - particularly that up the stairs is usually where people sleep and have their bathroom.

I have a generalised understanding of how houses are laid-out, but thanks for taking the time.

I mean - the risk was known. That's undeniable. To let a five year old go near the risk without supervision is also a choice.

It's a negligent choice, of course... but there would always be an amount of time between reporting the issue and it being remedied. What the time extends to is variable... but it's never ever zero... so no-one, at any point, has suggested not using half of the house for a few weeks (or any amount of non-zero time) as a remedy. Supervision is the remedy. This wouldn't be me - I can say that assuredly.

Context is everything.  We have not seen how bad the damage is,  nor do we know if this is a landlord who is usually slow to get things fixed. If he is usually fine, then I can'  t see that reporting him to the council at this stage is fair.  S21 ends soon, so creating bad feeling could result in eviction after the repair.

If the tenant owned this property they would be faced with the same problems as a landlord.  Would they be able to find someone prepared to drop everything and come to mend the stairs quickly?  Maybe,  but I doubt it. A neighbour has been trying to get a carpenter to fit wardrobes.  They all have so much work on that she expects to wait until spring.  I doubt if they would prioritise mending a couple of stairs.

I also doubt that an owner would book themselves into B&B,  as has been suggested. Of course safety on stairs matters, so in their position I would do my utmost to do a temporary fix, or call upon a skilled DIY friend or paid handyman. Hopefully the carpenter is back and has done the work.  If the whole staircase needs doing then it' s another matter. 

I think the carpenter being on hols is kind of irrelevant – the agent has a duty of care.  Yes, they could argue you should have kept your child away (arguing that if you knew...), but the stairs form part of the (necessary) structure of the house, so if dodgy, the agent should have temporarily rehoused you.

Something slightly similar happened in mine – 5 stained, oil-waxed (but not slippery) wooden stairs, a 180deg landing, then another 5 to ground level.  The 'tenant' (who we suspect was a pi**ed visitor), fell and broke her ankle.  We immediately went round and put plastic glued treds on each step.  All since OK, and we never heard anything back from the tenants – and it clearly wasn't one of them that'd fallen...

In our own home we have a flight of 12 steps in exactly the same finish... plus 2 small kids.  Never a problem.  So, we'd have fought any legal battles if it'd come to that...

In your case, the agent has an immediate duty of care.  End of.  The landlord (possibly completely unaware, and possibly horrified) should have been informed by the agent, but it's the agent you could potentially be doing battles with.  So you face the option of risking S21 for 'being awkward' if you tried to push it.  Citizen's Advice could be your friend here.

Quote from: Chris S on September 16, 2024, 02:25:35 PMEnd of.

I just LOVE those kind of posts - end of. 

Quote from: Chris S on September 16, 2024, 02:25:35 PMIn your case, the agent has an immediate duty of care.  End of.

Not temporally, of course. As that would be impossible.

Immediate is temporal.

Can be... but in this case is not, and that's what I was pointing out. There can be no possibility of the stairs being made safe immediately. Regardless of any immediate duty of care.

Agreed. Over 2 weeks and not even a proposed timescale, though?

I think the OP has gone, though. Perhaps the stairs got them.

You should contact your local council's environmental health department and report the safety issue. They can look into it, especially now that someone's been hurt.

The whole "carpenter on holiday" excuse doesn't really cut it for something this serious.