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Backdated renewal tenancy and deposit protection

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Author Topic: Backdated renewal tenancy and deposit protection  (Read 310 times)
Jr. Member
Posts: 54

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« on: February 20, 2022, 09:13:46 PM »

Hi all,

I hope somebody could shed some info onto the following issue

background:

1) I had an original tenancy starting from Sept. 2016 for fixed terms on 12 months (deposit protected in insured DPS scheme but no PI served)
2) in Sept 2017, the tenancy expired (protection ended too) and I believe a periodic AST was created.
3) Another Tenancy was exchanged in Nov 2017 with some modifications (break clause), with a backdated start date of Sept 2017 (Landlord said, the backdating for 'accounting purposes


Questions I have is,

a) Since the deposit was not protected originally, the requirement protect it applied again even though deposit did not physically change hands during the period (superstike v Rodrgiues), so for the purposes of protection the deposit which date applies? Sept. 2017 or Nov 2017?

b)  What effect the backdated tenancy agreement have on the creation of periodic tenancy in between the original and the renewed tenancies ?

c) What effect the backdated tenancy agreement have on deposit protection laws, if any?

d) has there been any case laws on this matter?

Thanks in advance.
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2022, 12:20:38 AM »

If your objective is to sue for at least one penalty payable by the landlord then it doesn't matter since Tenancy 1 PI wasn't given properly and that is still within 6 years limitation. If your objective is to show the invalidity of a s21 notice given at a possession hearing, again it doesn't matter unless they did finally reprotect the deposit and give PI within 30 days of the Sept 2017 tenancy starting.

A tenant attempting to maximise any deposit protection penalties will argue that there have been 3 tenancies, being a 12 months fixed term Sept 2016, a stututory periodic tenancy arising from that Sept 2017, and then another fixed term Nov 2017. (Is there a 4th tenancy, that being another SPT arising after the Nov 2017 fixed term ended?)

A landlord attempting to evict via s21 notices who protected the deposit within 30 days of Nov 2017 will argue likewise.

A landlord attempting to minimise deposit protection penalties liability will argue that the contract exchanged Nov 2017 evidenced the verbal agreement of a fixed term that started Sept 2017. You can't backdate a tenancy contract as if it started earlier, but it can be signed to evidence the earlier grant of a tenancy and its terms.
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2022, 12:25:46 AM »

I did think we've been through this once already.............  ???
Jr. Member
Posts: 54

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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2022, 02:33:05 AM »

Thanks KTC.

yes, it is the same case.. just wanted to understand where the law stands with regards to the backdated tenancy to argue in court.

so, we only exchanged signed contract in Nov 2017 via email which had Sept 17 as tenancy start date. Never explicit signed for anything else.

so for this case, is my below understanding correct,

a) legally, the renewed tenancy started only in Nov 17 and hence 30 days to protect the deposit  started from Nov 17 ? (deposit was not protected even 30 days after Nov 17, but I want to understand the law around backdated tenancies)

b) Even with al backdating, there was a periodic AST between Sept 17 - Nov 17 ?

Pls confirm. Thanks
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2022, 09:58:01 AM »

Jesus H Christ.Kill me now someone.
Full Member
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2022, 04:31:15 PM »

Jesus H Christ.Kill me now someone.

Keep taking the happy pills HK.

Mahira will soon have their day in court and this will all be over.
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2022, 06:15:41 PM »

wanna bet?
Full Member
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Landlord - always learning

« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2022, 08:56:22 PM »

wanna bet?

Nope.

You might cut a deal with Mahira to make "just one more post" and then I'd lose   ;)
Jr. Member
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2022, 01:44:40 AM »

I am really sorry if I had upset anyone for posting.

This forum and internet has been my only reliable source.

My case is just a weeks away, So I will just stop posting,

would really appreciate if somebody could clear up on the above 'backdated tenancy' questions.

sorry once again..
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2022, 10:22:10 AM »

Do let us know the date of the hearing.I would like to light a candle and say a little prayer for the landlord.
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2022, 03:32:48 PM »

So I will just stop posting,

It is not that.

People are just surprised as to how long-running this saga has been / become. Most normal posters would have resolved their issue by now or have forced through their questions in such a way they had their answers. I cannot read everything you've written, but it feels almost circular. This is a rough-and-tumble place and we do not get offended by the things that people say... and neither should you. You can tell HK to get lost... and she might / might not - she might come back snarling (she has sharp teeth, and she drinks!)... it really doesn't matter. You probably can't offend HK, not really. Neither should you get offended by humour or exasperation. You take a deep breath and re-enter the fray. KTC has been your best source of solace / hope / resignation so far - but I see that KTC likely thinks you've probably got the answers you need? Are you quite sure you haven't?

Whatever happens... do continue to post, especially with the eventual outcome.
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2022, 04:57:31 PM »

You can tell HK to get lost...

Tempting...   :-*
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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2022, 05:52:41 PM »

Feeling brave Handyman?
Jr. Member
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« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2022, 06:00:11 PM »

thanks Hippograff.

I appreciate my case has been going on for too long. even I am exhausted. But it is due to no fault of own. (COVID, landlord not paying the fee, courts incorrectly vacating my counter claim as a result, etc)

The questions, I am asking is not circular. I now understand about most things around the deposit protection laws (s213 - s215) and case laws thanks to KTC.

But there are some gaps which I am trying to iron-out. For example, how the law sees backdated tenancy and any case laws so that I can read them on my own.

so if you or KTC be kind enough to mention some case-laws around backdated tenancies and more importantly confirm my understanding in #reply 3. I would be very grateful.

Thanks

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« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2022, 06:01:36 PM »

I am not at all offended by Mahira.I am just deeply dismayed at the time and energy expended on pursuing a landlord who, if I recall, did not set out to deliberately break the law.They obviously have broken the rules,and deserve a penalty.This desire for revenge and a large pay-out seems out of all proportion  to any harm suffered by the tenant.Most of us have to let far worse hurts go in the course of life. More than anything though I am so bloody bored by this  saga.
Jr. Member
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2022, 06:41:13 PM »

Hi heavykarma.

I appreciate what you are saying, but there are stuff which I have not told. This professional LL, in addition to breaking the rules, has not maintained the property and physically and verbally been abusive, More than anything, what upset me so much is that he is greedy to the point he made a ridiculous money claim even after taking control of the property and also I find out has submitted falsified evidence.

So, I am just making a counterclaim for all the troubles, all on my own while doing other things going in life which I do not want to mention and make you even more bored..

Hope you can understand my situation and really hoping now KTC or anyone else will help me out here with bit of advice and pointing me in the right direction...
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Landlord - always learning

« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2022, 09:37:49 PM »

Feeling brave Handyman?
I've had one glass of wine...  just let me have another, then I'll let you know  ;D
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