UK Landlord Forum / Life

Saw the link in another forum members (marad_2001) signature and checked it out. Turns out they were doing a free "webinar" (online seminar) on various property investment strategies with a view to selling their "business in a box" course on property investment. I watched it "live" on wednesday.

the webinar was interesting with lots of high level information. They dont go into a lot of detail about HOW to do what they do, but they present interesting ideas for you to research and if you fancy splurging £600ish quid you can go do their course.

Anyway the point of this post is they emailed attendees with a link to download webinar............so here it is for you guys to check out if you want:


http://www.thesophisticatedinvestor.co.uk/booknow.html


enjoy

Hey there,

did you actually pay £600 and attend?

hello mate, no the webinar was FREE and was a taster to get people to go to their full course (which is £600 and is held in october sometime i think) where you attend a day intensive course and walk away with their "business in a box" pack which walks you through their various investment stragtegies. They also offer a money back guarantee on the course and if i had a spare £6/700 i probably would attend actually!

I just thought the webinar threw up a lot of interesting ideas and would be of interest to you guys so when they made it available for download id thought id share

You sound like a salesman

Are you a landlord, mate?

yeah i am a landlord. I posted all about me in the "whats your story thread"

unfortunately im not on commission with the sophisticated investor people   I literally just stumbled across it from the link in marad_2001's sig.

As a total property novice i found the stuff pretty interesting so thought id bung it up on here. No pressure for you guys though. But hey if you wanna email them and tell them I'm helping to pimp their product, maybe them rich boys will help fund my dream investment of the townhouse i found for redvelopment in return - it could happen.....right?  

LOL

Anything is possible

I'm still contemplating whether it's a good time to buy or not....hmmm!! Decisions, decisions!

buy yes, sell no! (in my opinion)

i would buy now with no worries, funding is my only issue 

I agree with grahamC.

Its the best time to buy... Id just do it up basically with as little money as pos and then rent it out, until the market is alot better in afew yrs or so. Then develop it to a good standard and then yes, happy days.

My advice for what it's worth is free - I wont charge you £600.

Sounds like the heavy sell route beloved of certain property groups that has seen its "developers" lose hundreds of thousands of pounds due to overvaluation and dodgy information. Admitedly they were charging thousands of pounds for this so called "information".

Mostly offer excellent discounts on property as they "buy in bulk and negotiate on your behalf"! B****ks - just ask those poor souls who invested in flats in any major city and bought at £240000 on the promise of luxury apartments with excellent rental opportunity who are now sitting on dwellings that are worth half that, are getting hugly reduced rents because there are so many flats up for rent or who are having them re-possesed at less than £100000.

Remember - if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is!

Start small - now is an excellent time to buy. Perhaps not the bottom of the market but you have to speculate to accumulate. Market may go down but you can still save £££££'s now by hard negotiation with vendors.

Know your area and the area you wish to invest in well - very well! Go and see some houses and you will be gobsmacked by the vast array available. From the very well priced to the vastly overpriced - they are all out there with most owners thinking theirs is the best in the world. Dodgy tiling, painting, hideous carpets - I can't beging to explain to you what I have seen over the past few months. I currently have 3 sales going through, two of which require renovation and one that is ready to rock and roll bar a few minor issues. look past the decor and look at the house, the area, similar properties, rents etc. If the sums stack up go for it BUT negotiate hard.

Spread your risk. I personally buy 4/5 share properties and do them up to a very good but inexpensive standard. Tenants will not respect your property. Buy contract furniture that will last 3 - 4 years but looks good. 4/5 bed lets are more expensive to buy but the rental yields are usually higher.

Be obliging to your tenants. I provide an inexpensive broadband service FOC. Costs very little but is seen by most as a valuable extra.

The financial rewards start to come when you have more houses so don't expect to become Rockerfeller or Trump overnight. It's the multiplication factor that counts.

With 4 houses currently - hoping to increase to 7 in the next few months I am laying a hopefully firm foundation on which to build a succesful business. My aim is for an income of £2000-3000 a month over the next 2 years with an increase also in the property value. 5 year plan is for 20 houses, 7 year plan 30-35 houses. YOU have to have a plan to suceed and you dont need to pay someone £600 to do that. Remember that these people want your money and have no real interest in you or your dreams.

Buy,Buy, Buy. It may take a few years to recover but then you will get the rewards.

Jools

Just re-read it and sound like angry kid!! Sorry!!

Holy hell, you're buying brick up like your Warren Buffet!

I don't think I'm that ballsy! Are you buying property on your own, or with someone else (partners)?

Just little old me!

I don't trust money men and I certainly don't trust anyone else with my money.

For the time happy with that. I have some excellent tradesmen that I use along with the skills built up over the last few years watching and asking questions. Also been ripped off severely on a few occasions and discovered that the professionals in some cases are no better than me when it comes to hands on stuff like plastering etc.

I take the view that you can build it slow or you can build it quick - quick is the best route as you can get retired quicker!

I'm taking advantage of the market but looking at investemnts that make sound financial sense whilst balancing the risk.

Jools

Is property your full-time job, Jools? Just curious

Hi - it is now! Been dabbling for a few years with smaller projects one of which i managed to make an obscene amount of money and pay off the mortgage.

Over the last few years I realised that I could do as good a job as some of the so called professional builders, if not better in some cases, and decided more recently that the down turn in the house prices and housing market in general represented an ideal investment opportunity so I am buying as much as possible at the moment. Return on investment should be realised over the next 3 - 5 years as prices increase and with it more properties.

Not too sure where you or the other members are investing at the moment (geographically) but I tend to stay in one spot and go for houses that are in need of refurb or are in excellent condition that can generate income almost immediately. Not gone down the auction route at the moment but possibly considering this in the. I dont think that the market has reached bottom there yet and repo's, whilst appealing, are too much of a hassle especially with the hoops that you have to go throughand the potential for 'authorised' gazumping that these sales generate.

What about you? Are you full time?

Jools

Nope, I'm part-time landlord.

I also invest in one area in Essex. I know the area well, so I like stick to what I know, I guess.

All my investments are long term plans; I don't really have the time to do quick turn arounds, although it's something i'd love to do. I also buy properties in good condition that I can just let out straight away.

Listening to you makes me want to be a bit more gusty! Ahhh!
I'm going on Rightmove as we speak!

It's all about the limitation of risk. I dont have a pension and given the volatility of the financial markets I just dont trust the so called professional investors or the stock market. The way I see it is that in order to make some money either long term or short you have to be prepared to stick your neck out. How far depends upon your circumstances and your attitude to risk as a whole.

I am fairly cautious but I'm fairly confident that buying property now is less risky than having it sat in some bank or building society. I too am looking at the long term investment and wont even consider risky investments in appartments or city centre flats as the down  side is too great.
I'm early 40's and I have run my own business in the past so I am lucky in some ways that I have some experience in dealing with those who like to think they have financial holds over you. As I stated in another post Banks are evil and must be treated just like any business. If they foul up you go and get your pound of flesh as they would if it were the other way around!

My investments are in Cardiff at the moment. Heavens don't listen to me! I might just be totally wrong!!!! But i do believe in that you can either do it quickly or slowly. If you can afford it, and in the current climate I would say that doing it quicker would be of greater benefit. Different areas different set of problems. Have faith in your own abilities but don't be tempted into overstepping those abilities in taking on projects that will take too long to turn around.

Find a property.
Negotiate a decent discount (10-15%).
Closer to completion - renegotiate price (not very moral but if this is to be your business you need to remove emotion otherwise you will always be limited by your ability to negotiate). Its not personal its business. Business is war as the Japanese say (I used to work for them).
Paint it.
Tart it up where necessary.
New mattresses (£50-£60 you can afford to replace every year if needs be and everyone loves to be the first to sleep on one) If they 'soil' it (isn't that a horrible word!) it comes out of their bond.
Give something back (I provide free broadband in the properties) they love it!
In some of my properties I pay the utilities. I can make some money off the back of that as well. Companies such as Glide (http://www.glide.uk.com) can make this easier but I have not used them yet so can't comment on how they work.
Get your tenants in and move onto the next!!

Loads of properties out there. HAve some fun and go for a nosey around some just for the hell of it. I recently went to see a peoperty that was up for sale in Cardiff on 3 year Home Office contract for housing Asylum Seekers. Now I'm not going to get political here but I have never seen anything quite like it in my life. These poor ladies were housed in accomodation so cramped they could not open the doors fully to allow me into the rooms. The hot water tap was broken and there was boiling water constantly running from it. The fire doors were not to building regs, there were no fire egress windows - it was a disgrace so I complained to the private sector housing unit and something is being done. Laughable thing was that the Home Office agent had inspected the property 3 days before my visit and signed everything of as being OK!! This is government backed!

Seriously, the more you look the better feel you will get for whats available and for how much you can negotiate off. Thats all part of the fun and better the margin in your pocket rather than th evendors or the estate agents!

Jools

As usual people are throwing wild accusations around without looking into the facts.

I am part of the sophisticated investor set up and I can tell you that we do not do bulk purchase discounts, we provide you with the knowledge you need to purchase in the current market, lots of different purchasing strategies, how to track your tax, purchase legally and ethically and ,exactly what the gentlemen said who went to the webinar, provide you with a 'business in a box'.

I STRONGLY reccomend you download the webinar to see what we are about first hand, and it will give you useful informtion even if you don't decide to go any further with the course.  There is no obligation, no hard sell, we also hate the hard sell seminars.  I know once you've listened you'll see what I mean.

Finally, I wouldn't reccomend buying anything in this market at a 10 -15% discount.

Still dont trus't ya but as I'm open minded I will have a look at your spiel.

As a matter of interest how many properties do you personally have? As for throwing wild accusations around, unfortunately you are in a market place that has come under fire recently for the very reasons I have stated. If your organisation is not part of that Bravo.

Business in a box eh - very interesting concept.

Will get back to you when I've had a shuftie at the 'webinar'. Finally 10 - 15% is a reasonable starting point for negotiations. Your reasons behind your non recommendation for not buying anything at the discounts mentioned in the current is based on what? Or do I have to buy into your organisation to find out?

Jools

Hi Jools,

Really appreciate your response.

Fair enough to be sceptical, but just go through our stuff and you'll see it is about knowledge, bringing different investment strategies and knowing your deals inside out. 

We won't touch any flats or investment clubs and only purchase second hand, negotiating directly with vendors, this is what allows us to tailor win / win deals with large discounts.

Personally I own 17 properties on a holding strategy.

I wouldn't reccomend 10 - 15% personally becuase I know there are a lot bigger discounts to be had.  We won't purchase anything over a 30% discount, for a number of reasons including allowing rent to stack against the mortgage and creating a good cashflow but importantly protecting ourselves against further dips in the market.  If your buying at 10 -15% the value you purchased at could be market value in 6 months time.  I appreciate you don't realise the losses till you sell but when juggling a portfolio being geared to the hilt can be risky, and we are all in the business of minising risk.

We can generate really large discounts up to 50% with strategies such as circular finance and the webinar runs you through how it works so there is some real value for you there.

Hope you find it helpful.

Mark Ashworth

Thanks for the reply Mark.

It's horses for courses and if you have a market specialisation then that is good. I'm not worried if the market is at the discounted price in 6 months time because I know that historically the value will rise over the next 5 to 10 years and my portfolio is being geared to the long term. I suppose each person has their own strategy and if everyone was the same then life would be very boring and the property market would stagnate.

Gearing/leverage is based upon the fact that you dont sell the properties so that you avoid the major tax implications that selling presents but again the mode of funding very much depends upon the clients individual needs and attitudes to risk.

Will have a look over the next day or so with an open mind - honest!!

Jools

Morning Jools

Glad to see you are checking out what we do. Whether you want to come on the training or not, the free presentation will give you some real food for thought.

Just want to pick up on one of your points.

10-15% discount.

I understand you are not to worried because you invest for the long term, but it is a little more complex than that. For two reasons:-

1)We are currently in a buyers market with property prices going down. If you buy with a 10-15% discount what happens if the market is still down when you come to remortgage, which in the norm is 2-3 years maybe 5 sometimes. You could be in a position where are remortgage is not possible and you are stuck with the lenders variable rate. This could seriously effect cashflow.

2) This could be compounded if mortgage lenders criteria becomes more and more stringent. Currently the best rates are offered on deals with 25% equity. Only 6 months ago there was a host of lenders offering great rates with  15% equity. As lenders increase the deposit or equity they want in a deal what happens if when you come to remortgage, the equity you hold is 15% say but the lenders all want 25%. This is why a high level of investors are buying now with at least a 30% discount

Hope this helps

Chris

Just going off topic...you guys need to work on your website. It looks like a scam

I'm a bit confused by your site. What are you guys actually offering? Simple a free webinar with tips?

Hey Fag - you beat me to it!!

Crap site - just googled 'holding strategy' and found the following:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Wa3j-35F9iwC&pg=PA207&lpg=PA207&dq=holding+strategy+%2B+property&source=web&ots=x8buGsyiP-&sig=DDt_2HyhzVzOk7VlmUzfIYjJYhk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA207,M1

Check out p207.

Holding strategy looks exactly like the normal leveraging system and 'circular finance' is something not known by my IFA.

Sound like an Amway convention to me (their detergent products are actually very good) and whilst I am sure you are a very nice chap Mark - still don't trust ya. Sorry. I am sure you will get some custom though.

The whole point of leverage is you use others peoples money whilst puting in the minimum deposits. Why tie up your own money? OK charges may be higher BUT I take this into account when setting rents. I dont pay for it. Also with interest rates likely to fall again over the next 6 months or so - is a variable rate such a bad thing? The Government will not allow interest rates to rise to the 7 or 8 % levels or higher as it would be professional suicide for any Prime minister in place at the time irrespective of party. Buyer beware - if you set realistic rents, provide excellent levels of accomodation and plan wisely there should be no problem. Protect the downside is all you need to know in property or for that matter any business. If it all goes t**s up make sure you still have a roof over your head and don't let your properties fall into such disrepair that no one will live in them thus depriving you of rental income or should the worst happen, make you a massive loss when sold.

Jools

I'm with you on this, Jools! Good stuff.

But guys, seriously...your website. That's an ASAP job.

Thanks for the comments guys

Property fag - whats wrong with the site - have you actually look at the download

Jools - Don't agree with your comments. The bank of england have control over the interest rates not the government. While I understand your comments about interest rates not going to high, lenders are trying to clawback losses over the last couple of years hence rate cuts have not always been passed on. Bear in mind what I said before about loan to values. If you can't remortgage because you loan to value is higher than what works at the time with other lenders you are stuck with the lender.

If you start to grow a portfolio and general work is required unless you are buying right how long can an investor support the work from income, unless they can leaverage.

Guys I understand you comments (apart from the amway one), but you are replying to stuff without actually checking what we do.

The webinar we did the other night was presented to over 200 property investors. Our book on No Money Down Schemes and the webinar was highly praised by two of the biggest property forums in the uk - Singing Pig and Property Tycoons. As you don't know us I understand skeptism, but look at the facts first.

The website could be polished, but that tends not to do the job. The words make it very clear what we are offering, pretty pictures and all singing dancing sites just don't sell.

Jools with regard you Ifa - I could say get another one, because they lack the right knowledge, but instead, rather than coming back with inaccurate comments, look at the download, then reply.

Chris

The site looks awful, in terms of functionality and visualisation.

I honestly didn't even know what the site was about- there was too much text. 99.9999% of websites breakdown information by pages, you've just slapped everything onto one page, and it's confusing and overwhelming. The fonts are so big and bright that it's almost as if you're shouting. The first thing you see on your site is this:



You don't actually mention what the site is about and what you do. All you've said is "the credit crunch is forcing people out of business" and that the two guys in the pictures authored a book. And what? You shouldn't assume that visitors will read everything you have to say, because they won't...especially with a site so visually "cheap" looking- they'll just leave. For some reason you've made the most irrelevant message most visible (the credit crunch blurb) and the actual point of the site (the investment programme) extremely small and hidden away next to the authors name. That's pretty bad marketing.

It would be better if you used a title saying, "Download our free Webinar to help you progress in property" or something. Then i know what the site is about.

The quality of the download is pretty irrelevant- I was speaking strictly of the website. No one is going to download anything if the site looks dodgy. I'd be scared of downloading a virus.

Your conversion rate is probably extremely low (unique visitors divided by downloads), and the bounce rate is probably ridiculously high (unique visitors just leave the site without making an action).

If your type of site worked, other huge online companies would implement it. Companies like Rightmove, ebay..etc They're all selling a product, and spend millions on userability testing. If your method of getting a conversion is so successful, why don't they have a similar design to yours? You won't find many successful companies using the same design marketing strategies.

I'm just saying, as a user, when I landed on your site, I initially thought it was a scam. The site looks unprofessional. And having "pretty pictures" isn't what I mean by "professional". Professional to me, is giving a clear, clean message, with "trust"

You imply your site works, but I guarantee you have done no actual measurements to prove that.

I'll prove my point:

Which site would you trust more to buy a car from (neither company has a huge brand)? http://www.compucars.co.uk/ or http://www.vcars.co.uk/

The latter, because it doesn't look like a scam.

Anyways, hope you don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm just trying to tell you where I think you're going wrong. Image is everything if you don't have a huge brand, because it's the first thing the punters will see.

Chris,

you are right that I am replying without actually seeing what you do because your site does not give me the confidence to find out more. I totally disagree about what you say about your web site not mattering because it does - do you think Branson and the Virgin brand would use a similar gateway to yours?

If I was looing for a mentor who do you think I would go to? Branson who is a Billionaire or aspiring Millionaires? Just think how many more hits you would have if you had a site that looked great? It costs what, about £600 for a nice site? Isn't that what you charge for your seminar? So just one additional person pays for it!

The chancellor taketh away and the chancellor shall give it back IF the incumbent in post at the time deems it in the good of the country. Do you really think the Government will allow the banks to get away with the fact that they have been caught doing some hugely stupid things like buying toxic debt without any thought for the consequences? The Bank of England have bailed out and are likely to continue to bail out more financial institutions over the next few months. The Governments now and in the future will not allow this to happen again.

If you start to grow a portfolio and general work is required unless you are buying right how long can an investor support the work from income, unless they can leaverage.
Sorry, no idea what you mean by this!

Perhaps my IFA is doing his job by not getting me involved in circular finance schemes?

Propertyfag is right - Chris, get a decent picture done, one where it looks like your not having your passport taken! Spend a few quid from the sales of your Acclaimed book and get the site looking at least half decent. As i said - I am sure out of your 200 hits you will get some clients -but it won't be me. As a potential customer you have about 15 seconds to impress me when I click on your web site, as I expect it to be informative, modern, well laid out and able to answer the question "why should I trust these guys to help me invest my hard earned money" - It does not. Same way if I saw you both driving Bentley Arnages - just does not click my buttons.

Quotes from other forums don't impress me - it's the same as cinema advertising on billboards; Superbly Funny 5**** - Empire, or laughed till my lungs fell out - Silver screen. People do make stuff up you know!

As I have said - best of luck - not for me.

Jools

What experience do you both have with online direct response marketing. Because your comments with respect show a lack of understanding for this market place. I understand that the site can be improved, and it will be, when a wider audience is sort. The site is a follow up to the webinar - which had a different site. If you look at Grahams original post you will see the order page there in more detail.

The web pages are sales copy and are used in direct response marketing - what you are suggesting is not used in this area.

The comments are real comments from investors, but you are assuming for some reason they are not.

As you said will just have to disagree and good luck building on your two properties

Quote from: chris wright on September 24, 2008, 02:14:47 PM
What experience do you both have with online direct response marketing.

It's my full-time profession