UK Landlord Forum / Life

I'm spec-ing out a kitchen for a property that I am developing. The layout is only rough at the moment (need to move the kitchen stuff around to be in the right places) - but I was given to wonder about fitting out the kitchen with appliances...



Some things are going to be there no matter what - the hob, the hood, the oven, the sink - that kind of thing. But what about appliances like the fridge, freezer, washer / dryer, dishwasher...?

Now, I can feel your eyes rolling as you read that last bit. Why would such a devilishly bright and stunningly shrewd professional such as myself make such a classic school boy error? Got money to burn? Wake up and smell the Frappuccino!

Well, as you can see from the little illustration above, we have ourselves a fairly small property (6m x 7m) and somewhere we have to put a washing machine, fridge, freezer and maybe, just maybe a dishwasher (I don't have one myself, but I understand that some people have hands that melt when exposed to fairy liquid). Leaving gaps under the counter for these things isn't going to look too nice and adding integrated appliances would be very swish. And apart from that - Frappuccino doesn't really smell very much.

But the million dollar question is this - does this "swishness" translate in to green? (Green in the classic sense rather than all this new age hippy eco-nonsense).

I'd greatly value your opinion.

Cheerio,

Frying Bullet.

It all depends on who your target market is . If its the lower end - first time buyers , young couples etc

Then I think it makes sense .

I agree that spaces for appliances look bad and actually make the kitchen not as swish .
So if you dont end up buying any appliances you should maybe fit appliance doors to the space ... as it would be big enough . So the kitchen looks complete and there appliances with be able to fit in plus all they need to do it attach the back of the door to the appliance .

But I cant really have an opinion unless I know the market your aiming towards .

On another note , the layout of the down stairs looks pretty good .  ... except I do notice there is no fire ? hmmm

haha sorry . You do look as if you know what you are doing though !

Ok.

Does your budget include all these 'extras'?
What is your target market? Young professionals/families/first time buyers etc.

Obviously I'd expect all the appliances to be included in a rental property but depending on your market I'd say that you'd get away with not including a washer/dryer but I do think a dishwasher is a good selling point for a kitchen.

I agree moooo.

In my property id love to have a dishwasher (slimline) in there , but all of the appliances cost so much . Just for a fridge, freezer and a washing machine!

I really didnt want to spend the money ... however I got afew bargains so it was ok I guess .
Really will finish off the kitchen when they are all in . 

Quote from: Fionalouisa on March 13, 2008, 12:55:41 PM
It all depends on who your target market is . If its the lower end - first time buyers , young couples etc

Then I think it makes sense .

Exactly what I was thinking!

Just looking at your kitchen - I think the radiator isn't needed and you could instead use that space for more cupboards or better still the location of the oven/hob as it would act as a focal point.

If you shortened the living room radiator and moved it more towards the dining room table and put a long radiator under the window the heat would be sufficient, especially if they're double radiators. If that is not possible floor heaters (consealed within the kickboards) are a good idea.

What a fantastic bunch of responses - many thanks.

Firstly - the target market. I'm aiming to sell this house on for around £185 - 190K. The ceiling price on the street is £195K and there are similar properties on the market for £199K (but with better aspect and stuff).

So, it's not out of reach of first time buyers, but there are many easier properties in local urbanised areas for getting on the property ladder. Given that this is always going to be a ex-council property - albeit a fairly nice 3 bedroomed one, I am unlikely to nab a style guru professional (the property on at £199 is attempting to do this, which I think is over ambitious - but nice that they raise the tone). More likely is young couples or small families (The third bedroom is quite small).

The budget for the kitchen will not stretch for these extras - however I am carrying contingency and have other additional funds to put in if there is likely to be a return on the investment.

I like the idea of just attaching the frontages for appliances like an integrated fridge, freezer, washing machine or dish washer. I did also consider leaving space at an end for a monster fridge freezer, but suspect this is going to look out of place in a small kitchen.

I have been thinking very hard about the fireplace (and conversely - I just sprinkled radiators around until I've discussed it properly with my plumber - but some great ideas there). I spent some time looking at electric fire places - am I alone in thinking that they all look completely naff?  Maybe I am a gas snob - any suggestions on an attractive electric fireplace (there isn't currently a flue for a gas appliance). On balance I came to the conclusion that not having one gave greater flexibility in positioning the furniture - particularly for access to the dining area. Is this a faux pas?

I really like the idea about the cooker - Having it down the end creates  a focal point as you point out - but also helps to keep the cooking pong away from the living areas. I will see if I can duct the hood vent out - maybe a small false wall if the window position will allow... Got me thinking now.

Thanks again for your ideas and encouragement.

Cheerio, FB.

I think there are alot of 'gas snobs' as you put it, out there and I am one !
It is a shame there isnt a flue ... and its just extra work to put one in. So I would go with an electric fire .. its your only option really .
'Next' do an ok range of electric fires and are so so price wise. So i'd have a gander at them.
Id also consider having it facing the chair on that wall ( it would be the most odv. ) But not having a chair and have two sofas instead ( one under the window ) to free up that space as you walk in .
Which woul make the open plan space seem alot bigger .

As for the vent, id just get a  re-circulating cooker hood , so it can go anywhere you want it . For the filters etc its only £20 more ... and then you dont need to faff with having it to an outside wall .

I agree with what Fiona said. It definately depends on your target market.

And as you stated, you're going to sell for about 190k, and that's currently the UK average house price. So I think it's pretty safe to assume you'll get a lot of attraction from first time buyers.

As already stated, I wouldn't bother with the appliances, I would just make spaces and perhaps use stylish doors to cover the space. People LOVE storage, especially if it looks slick.

Another problem is, because you don't have a lot of space to play with, you will need slimline appliances to make the place look right. Unfortunately, the non-standard sized appliances (slimline) costs more than the standard stuff. I don't think you'll get your return, personally.

I think the location of the W/C door should change, if possible, to face the front door.

Just for hygeine and modesty (would you want to eat your food while being able to look at the toilet?) - just a thought.  

Quote from: m00 on March 13, 2008, 03:08:08 PM
I think the location of the W/C door should change, if possible, to face the front door.

Just for hygeine and modesty (would you want to eat your food while being able to look at the toilet?) - just a thought.  

I've looked at worse things whilst eating food. The problem is when both audio and visuals come into play...

I'm just getting mental images of my nan straining on the toilet while i'm tucking into a cornish pasty.

haha fag , why a cornish pasty and why your nan !!

Quote from: Fionalouisa on March 13, 2008, 03:12:37 PM
haha fag , why a cornish pasty and why your nan !!

Random, innit?

Very.

The average house price for my neck of the woods is £127K (and falling), but properties in this village go for a hefty premium. So my expectation is that the first time buyers I attract are either a bit snooty or like being near aeroplanes (but on the flip side, it has exceptional commutability)

I'll take a look at the electric fires in Next - I also saw an advert for a Gas fire that doesn't need a flue. Not sure about that though - it might be impractical to be wearing an oxygen cylinder and mask around the house...

My original intent was a double settee and a chair, but I got the dimensions a bit skewiff - so I've corrected them now and there is room for two double setees. Not sure about having them in a parallel arrangement with one under the window though - the only place for the TV would be above the fireplace. I stayed in a totally amazing place in Scotland that had this set up. It looked great, but by about 8:30, your neck started to feel strained...

The WC door is not quite where you think it is. The view below might help -

The WC door is opposite the front door. The door to the dining area is a small cupboard that also houses the boiler (I will make sure there is adequate air supply!) I thought it would also serve as a place to stow the vacuum cleaner, baseball bat and/or kayak. I put the door round to the side so that when you come in through the front door there is a space on the wall for some decoration rather than just seeing two doors and the stairs. It does mean, however, that an unfortunate series of events could lead to the neighbours seeing granny with her tights round her ankles picking Cornish pasty crumbs out of her pants <shudder>. Best not to let her out of the dining area with any food...

Love the ideas on the kitchen - but here is another thought. I am really quite taken by those round sinks with a stylish set of taps. The thing is, they tend to be quite small and I would not think entirely practical for washing up after a family feast. However, if I fit a dishwasher - ping! - it is stylish and entirely practical for doing the odd bit of rinsing and washing up the cocoa mugs. What do you think?

I think in kitchens you really need to think functional/practicality as opposed to just style when choosing fundamental apparatus like sinks. I totally agree though, those round sinks look extremely slick. But it would drive me insane if I had to do the washing in it...

In my bathroom, I have one of those small round sinks. Visually it looks really nice; it's extremely impractical though. I wish I had favoured practicality when choosing the suite. Oh well, lesson learned.

We had a discussion about having a TV above a fireplace before. I remember strictly going against it, because a TV and a fireplace are both focal points. A room can look pretty odd if a room has 2 focal points vertically aligned. Additionally, a fireplace can often be distracting when you're watching TV. When the fire is on and the TV is on, won't the flashing lights clash and cause a little discomfort? Hmm..i'm not entirely sure about having a TV on top of the fireplace.

But I guess it could work. Like you said, you've seen it in the flesh and it looked cool...I don't think I've ever seen the combination before, that's why i'm struggling to imagine it.

Oh BTW, that view does help. The dining table isn't directly in line as it appeared. However, isn't the room limited to a round table that always has to be slightly left of the door?

I love how you're thinking about things so carefully. It's how things should be done. Good job!

Well I'll start off with sinks ... because I have a thing about nice sinks/ nice taps ... I love buying taps hah its a shame .
Anyways my sister recently had a new kitchen fitted and has 2 round sinks (one being a drainer) however its not connected to anything. So she could fit her slimline dishwasher underneath the drainer and it looks really nice.

Also I was wondering is the storage cupboard there because of building reg's to do with the toilet being off the kitchen/dining room ?
I like how the kitchen cant be seen from the living room its a really good idea. However the space as you would walk in seems cluttered. Odv it is your house and your ideas haha but if it was possible you could put the W.C under the stairs or just a stoarge cupboard . Then that wall would be freed up to maybe put a nice console table and a mirror - making it more hall like.

As for the living room arrangment, unless you are trying to not make it clear that you have developed the property ( as this sometimes discourages people ) then there wouldnt be any need for a tv.
I have to say I am a fan of symmetrical furniture and hate when I can see the back of furniture as I walk into a room .
But that is just me. I guess it gives a feeling of less space because its closing off the room abit .

Anyways thats about all . Hope ive help/probably not helped  

Ahh, now I see the door! That seems perfectly practical to me.

I'm just looking at the space beside the front door - is this for outside storage?

I'm just curious if you've thought about bricking it up and using that for the boiler/hoover/axe etc and removing the cupboard by the kitchen and taking advantage of the long worktop and making a breakfast bar?

It's just a thought but it also makes sense they way it is as the cupboard helps subtly seperate the living and dining areas.

Ooh I love plans me!  

Crikey - this is one hell of an active forum. Thanks for all your advice and suggestions, they are sincerely appreciated.

About the sink - there's a little red devil on my shoulder saying "buy the round ones, they are going to look soooooo cool - and to hell with anyone who has to live there", but I also have an angel wearing Dr Martins and packing a piece that says "do that - and I'll nut you". It's going to be a sensible sink and doors covering the spaces for the dish washer, fridge, freezer and washing machine.

But then - there are those really cool large stainless steel squarish sinks that cost a fortune and look cool too... Ouch, my nose!

Totally agree about the TV above the fireplace being a bad way to go - but I am also very much liking FionaLouisa's point that we don't have to have a TV at all for dressing the property - I'm happy that the space is practical if you do have a TV, but it is going to look a gazillion times sleeker without one. So parallel double settees and a pot plant to take up the little bit of space by the window. Nice one FL!

You are right about the limitations on the table in the dining area - it needs to be round and off to the side. I think this works for practicality so my minder angel is cool about that. The french windows themselves are going to be knocked through from an exisiting standard window - not sure what latitude I will have to move the position of this to improve the alignment - but I suspect that it will need to be aligned with the window at the front of the property for best effect (and I'll put a feature in view just into the garden to create a greater feeling of space). The alignment of the table is not ideal - but by aligning it with the two settees just off centre, it seems to be part of a separate center of gravity and seems to work well anyway (another brownie point FL!).

Since we are liking plans so much - how about a plan of the existing building as it stands today:



The box by the front door is a storage area - but I was thinking that this was where bin would be kept. Not ideal - but this is a mid terrace property with no access to the rear garden except through the house (it appears that quite a few of the more modern council terrace properties have this feature) - so the bin needs to go somewhere. There are houses where this has been removed and the front door moved right to the front of the property - great for living space, rubbish for rubbish.

I love the breakfast bar idea - it would mean I can buy stools - and really cool stools. Man, I would like to get some ultra cool stools. (did I really say that out loud?) Unfortunately, I need to site the boiler where I have the flue and I suspect that the cupboard idea is going to be more practical. In the NEXT property....

I understand that you can have a toilet off a kitchen under building regs for a residential property. The door is where it is to make as much out of the space under the stairs that I can for the WC. The toilet is 1m x 2m - I have one that size in my house and it is perfectly comfortable, but I wouldn't want to make it much smaller.

Well, I think that just about covers it. Thank you all very much again for your time, patience and kind advice. I feel that this development is going to be significantly better off for it.

Cheerio, FB.

Quote from: FryingBullet on March 13, 2008, 11:56:58 PM
Crikey - this is one hell of an active forum. Thanks for all your advice and suggestions, they are sincerely appreciated.

When theres new blood on the forum, we pounce! Plus we don't often see plans, so its a treat... 

I think your ideas are good and its a shame the extension is in such poor condition as it would have put an interesting dimension to the kitchen - 'L' shaped rather than 'U' shaped.

Still anything is an improvement on the original layout!

Its good to see the existing layout . Its definately a great improvement if you go with your plans , will free up so much space and light .

Looks great to me .

Talking of stools - I love love love the cream ones

Like this one;



or this !



I really wanted a stool at the start of th kitchen im doing - Because its half unit , from the front right corner to the back left corner if that makes any sense. So I was just going to have no side panel to block it in and just let the worktop overhang etc and have a nice stool facing the back doors which are going to be upvc french doors .
It would of looked lovely seeing that i'm having no wall units on that side. BUT my boyfriend said no 



But atleast I get to see your stools ! 

I really like that 2nd stool!

I prefer these...

Quote from: propertyfag on March 14, 2008, 12:59:39 PM
I really like that 2nd stool!

What can I say faggie I have good taste .   

Quote from: m00 on March 14, 2008, 01:07:16 PM
I prefer these...

Kind of funny in one way ... but if you look for too long it just becomes abit creepy ! hha I dont know why .

Rebuilding the extension and having an L shaped kitchen is plan C - but I really don't yet see a way to get a return on the investment. It'll push the value of the property up by a few grand, but cost an awful lot more. I'm seeing my builder next Thursday about it (and other things), but from past experience we are talking the better part of 10K with everything taken into account.

That second stool is awesome - where is it from? next?

Cheerio, FB.

Its from Dwell - they do quite alot of chairs and stools .
They good quality and fast delivery .

I just checked out http://dwell.co.uk/, it has some awesome furniture!!

Yeh, I love dwell and not too expensive really.

Those nun's legs were a bit old for me!

cheers

simhar

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