UK Landlord Forum / Life

We have a bit  of a complicated situation. We ( me and hubby) rent our property through letting agent.  We  signed tenants up to initial 6 month contract to begin with then the letting agent signed them up to another 12  without our say so  we thought it would be another 6 months like the first which would end  September 2014. We told the tenants that we wouldn't be renewing after the  6 months as we wanted to sell the property . This is when the trouble began and we discovered that they had  signed a 12 month , we haven't signed it the letting agent did. The tenants went ballistic and said no way are they letting anyone in they are staying put until  2015.  The agent then sent us out a 6 month lease to sign but the tenants wouldn't sign it saying they are sticking by their 12 months.  We were eventually allowed an estate agent in in July to value the house and take pics.  A few weeks back we had an email from the letting agent that the tenants have found  a property and are leaving the house in September on the 6 month agreement :/ that they wouldn't sign. This is going to leave us with an empty house and mortgage to pay. We refused them to leave as they were so adamant they were on a 12 month lease.  We asked for this in writing from the tenants that they are leaving but they won't. The letting agent says we have to release the tenants early and tell them our intentions whether we are selling the property or if she wants to advertise for new tenants. But as we have had no formal letter saying they are leaving we don'tt feel we are allowed to sell, rent / find new tenants as it hey still have exclusive rights to the property under the tenancy agreement.. I don't understand the letting a gent keeps sending the same email asking us to let the eye ants know of our intentions its like she is waiting for us to write so etching so she can pull us up on it and give the tenants legal reason to end the tenancy early. Sorry if its a bit of a waffles post. We expected help from our letting agent but she's being really nasty and seems to be siding with the tenants. 

Are we within our rights to ask the tenants what their intentions are first before telling the letting agent what we plan to do with the property ?

We are in Australia so very frustrating that we can't go see the lettinga gent face to face. Thanks in advance to anyone who reads

I really did try to follow your post...

In that big block of text do you really say that a) you didn't want them to stay until 2015 but, rather, wanted them to leave in Sep 2014, then b) the Tenants found a place and wanted to move out in Sep 2014 and c) you then refused to let them move out, saying they had a fixed term until 2015?

That's what it reads like... but I'm struggling to imagine that's the case?

Three things I would comment on...

1) In the eye of the Tenants, whether you instructed your Agent to offer a new 12 month fixed term or not, that is what they were offered by your Agent, and they signed - so I would say they have a legitimate fixed term of 12 months. If anyone, your beef must be with your Agent who is not following your instructions, not the Tenants.

2) Having Tenants in a property does not restrict your actions in selling the property... you can just sell it with Tenants and the new owner (hopefully a Landlord) can take it all on. Everything stays the same for the current Tenants in terms of term and rent etc.. You don't have to inform the Tenants of your intentions if you don't want to... I think most people would probably take the trouble, though. They do have to be formally informed of a change in Landlord though.

3) Remind your Agent that they work for you... otherwise tell them you will dispense with their services (might be a hollow threat, given your geographical location) because what you describe shouldn't be allowed to happen. You are paying the Agent, not the Tenant. If the Agent doesn't understand that then they are in the wrong job.

Thanks hippo griff for taking the time to reply. Yes we do feel annoyed with the agent. On the 6 month agreement yes we wanted them out by September.  We were going to sell and told the tenants . But when they made it near impossible for us to get a valuation, take pics etc by constantly making excuses and and canceling appointments they allowed with our selling agent , such as being ill, being on holiday we decided to put the sale on hold until next  year and go with their 12 month agreement.   Then  they find a place and decide no they will go with the 6 month and leave even though they haven't signed it.   Do the tenants need to inform us that they are leaving ?  Thanks

This is just another case of incompetence from an Agent.

I see yours and the tenants point of view.

The Agent is a total arse hole.

Given the original tenancy was for six months, and no other agreement remains in place, then its a periodic tenancy in place and the tenant can give you one months notice.

If they have done this, really thats it, suck it up and get on with it.

The Agent is siding with the tenant, as in reality they know this to be the case, as no other document exists which binds them to anything else.

Quote from: Kazzer1974 on September 05, 2014, 11:58:31 PMThanks hippo griff for taking the time to reply. Yes we do feel annoyed with the agent. On the 6 month agreement yes we wanted them out by September.  We were going to sell and told the tenants . But when they made it near impossible for us to get a valuation, take pics etc by constantly making excuses and and canceling appointments they allowed with our selling agent , such as being ill, being on holiday we decided to put the sale on hold until next  year and go with their 12 month agreement.   Then  they find a place and decide no they will go with the 6 month and leave even though they haven't signed it.

They might have been ill. They might have been on holiday. It's entirely possible there was no-one playing silly games.

Please try to look at this from the perspective of the Tenant as well. Your Agent - the person that represents you - has given the Tenant another 12 month agreement... the Tenant is simply not to be expected to ensure that you - the absent Landlord - is fine with that... they agreed the new term in good faith. They signed it and the Letting Agent (representing you) signed it. Then you came along and tried to get shot of them... they, rightly, said "no, we have a fixed term"... but then, later, they obviously started looking for elsewhere and then found somewhere and decided to try and move on... at which point you said "no, you must stay now".

This is all pretty shambolic, for sure... but it's hard to point the finger at the Tenant from what's been read here.

Quote from: Kazzer1974Do the tenants need to inform us that they are leaving ?

If they're in a fixed term then they can leave at the end of that fixed term without giving you any notice whatsoever... however, normal people would give you notice. If they're in a periodic tenancy then they must give you at least 1 month notice as boboff says, they can then depart and you have an empty property.

I do not believe a periodic tenancy is in place - you said the Agent and the Tenant signed a new 12 month agreement... the Agent is your Agent, acting on your behalf and - one would hope! - your instructions. You are in another part of the world.

Are you registered for income tax with the Non-Resident Landlord Scheme at HMRC so that 20% of your rental income is being taken before the rest is being passed to you?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/nr-landlords.htm

I hope so, otherwise bigger problems might be heading your way.

With this tenancy seeming to go over (or just around) a year, have you been ensuring that your Agent is doing all the stuff required with regards to GSC etc.?

Thanks for your replies. Yes hippo griff we are all above board with the legal side of things both there and here . The property has been let for 4 years with no problems whatsoever, the previous tenants we let pretty much do what theywanted to make the place a home , put shelves up take out a fridge and install a  s dishwasher, pain t a room a girls theme . We are really good landlords . I am wondering if maybe  ourselves and the tenants are being given the run around by the agent.  I did  consider emailing the tenants to try to  see what tthey have been told by the agent but not sure that's allowed . The original agency has merged with another and a new employee has taken over managing the property. We went even told of the merge which I think would have been common courtesy .  Its good to hear other people's points of veiw and I much appreciate your opinions . 

One more question. Once we know for definate that the tenants have left  and have handed keys back are we ok to then tell the esate agent we no longer require their services ,Even if we did then go with a new  agent? 

Quote from: Kazzer1974 on September 06, 2014, 11:48:05 AMI did  consider emailing the tenants to try to  see what tthey have been told by the agent but not sure that's allowed .

Allowed by who?

Nobody in this three-way relationship can tell you - the Landlord - you're not allowed to do anything.

What Hippo says.

Yes of course you can bin the Agent. There part in this sorry state of affairs concludes when the tenant moves out.