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Problem tenant

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Author Topic: Problem tenant  (Read 186 times)
Newbie
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I like property

« on: August 28, 2021, 01:43:59 PM »

The tenant I have moved in Feb this year on a 12 month contract, bar 2 months she is late every month with rent, sometimes by a few days, sometimes by a week.  I've gotten sick of it now and want to get her out.

After reading through section 8 / 21 notices, am I right in assuming that I cannot serve her a section 8 notice since she is still paying the rent within a few days? I've never had issues with tenants before and am finding this quite confusing.

If I serve her a section 21 notice, is the current minimum notice 3 months ?  :-[

Any advice on what steps I can do to move forward are much appreciated !
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2021, 02:44:26 PM »

You have not indicated any arrears are mounting. Taking what you've said - that rent is effectively up to date, but nearly always a little late - may I suggest you calm down and not make someone homeless onver such a trifling matter? Have you even discussed it with the Tenant? Do you know the reason why? Is no Standing Order set up? Can't you come to a solution working with the Tenant?

Do you have low tolerance levels? If in doubt then kick 'em out was debunked a long time ago.
Accidental Landlord
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2021, 04:35:58 PM »

I have to agree with Hippogriff in that rent being late by a few days or a week alone would not make me want to evict a tenant. In my AST, technically the rent is only late after 2 weeks and I am allowed to charger interest (I have only ever done this once with a truly awful tenant). It can be annoying if you have DDs and SOs of your own that depend on rent being received on the correct date however, I would still communicate with your tenant and find out why this is happening and go from there.
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2021, 06:35:25 PM »

Same opinion here.I have a current tenant who is the same.As long as I get his full  rent per calender month I am not fussed.It would certainly not in itself be a reason to evict .Even a short void can be expensive.If you are needing this money urgently for your mortgage or bills then you are vulnerable.I assume you have some reserves?   
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2021, 07:11:57 PM »

There is currently a week of arrears, its more the problem of the tenant consistently re-arranging collection dates, asking for time, ignoring me when i turn up for the rent etc, i have spoken to the tenant and explained that the rent needs to be paid on time as i rely on that to pay for the properties mortgage etc, had this conversation numerous times now to no avail.

The rental contract is in place until Feb next year, each month is becoming an issue collecting, i've had to re-arrange work and personal schedules as the tenant has a habit of constantly changing when i can collect rent.

There is a rent payment date  in the contract for a set date each month and its never been adhered too.

If my tenant isn't willing to stick to a regular payment date, what are my options ? At the moment rent should have been paid 7 days ago, went to collect yesterday - only to be told the tenant has gone to see a relative in scotland for a week and i have to wait another week to collect! asking for a bank transfer results in me being ignored
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2021, 10:25:01 PM »

I did not realise you existed in the 1960s. Sorry about that. Before driving-out on the assumption the rent (or the Tenant) will be there... why aren't you calling-ahead to at least save you the hassle of inconvenience? Or text or WhatsApp or email... anything other than just heading-out. Seems like you have a lower-end kind of Tenant... can be challenging.
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2021, 11:04:02 PM »

Of course cut them a little flack but this is our situation and just wanted you to be aware..….Our tenant hasn’t paid a penny in rent since Feb claiming covid had dried up his work. My Husband found him a job and he refused to take it. He has trashed our flat which was freshly decorated, clean and warm and we’ve always kept up with with legal obligations as a landlord. We managed to gain access in July (after be repeatedly refused to allow us access to inspect our property which he is entitled to do)  and there was vomit, faeces, rotting food, piles of dirty clothes, broken glass etc etc..the flat needs total refurbishment. He then admitted he’s an alcoholic. We’ve issued section 21 and then a section 8 once he was 4 months in arrears and still he won’t go. His Mum is at Director level in a letting agency and, at his admission, has advised him that as landlords we can’t do anything until the Baliffs step in. That will be November. We estimate at that stage with missed rent, solicitor and court fees we will be 10k out of pocket. We’re at our wits end but have resigned ourself to not getting our property back until November.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2021, 11:12:00 PM by Sheena0104 »
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2021, 01:30:12 AM »

Of course cut them a little flack but this is our situation and just wanted you to be aware...
Sorry to hear about your situation. That's awful for you and your husband.

But it has nothing to do with Kettleman's situation, which seems principally to be one of poor communication and expectation management with the tenant.

Kettleman writes:

"I've had to re-arrange work and personal schedules as the tenant has a habit of constantly changing when I can collect rent."

The contract ought to have mandated that rent be paid by bank transfer into the landlords bank account. Why would you want to be at the beck and call of your tenant, Kettleman, by collecting the rent in person?

The day after the due date and if the payment has not landed in your bank account, there should be an email (or if you wish a letter!) sent to the tenant saying that their rent is now overdue and needs to be paid immediately.

This is the only way to keep a proper record of the overdue payments and your notifications to correct the situation. If you do it verbally, it's no better than hearsay, and won't help in any proceedings you may ultimately have against the tenant.
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2021, 08:43:35 AM »

We estimate at that stage with missed rent, solicitor and court fees we will be 10k out of pocket. We’re at our wits end but have resigned ourself to not getting our property back until November.

Plus refurbishment costs. Good luck. Have you consider crossing his palms with silver? I call it incentivisation... but this forum thinks that's not a word, so KTC always tells me to be careful of entering into a bribery situation... however, how about a quid pro quo? "Here, ya scruffy twonk, here's some money to help you get yourself into a new place, no more will be said, no debts will be chased - it will be the end of it for us all."
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2021, 08:47:01 AM »

The contract ought to have mandated that rent be paid by bank transfer into the landlords bank account. Why would you want to be at the beck and call of your tenant, Kettleman, by collecting the rent in person?

Some people exist in a different world. The UK has plenty of "unbanked". It doesn't sound like it's the Landlord's choice here... I mean, some Landlords do like to take their Ranger Rove out for a spin every now and again... but this one has brought up bank transfer with the Tenant and it has fallen on deaf ears... I agree the AST should stipulate this... but obviously, months ago, the payment arrangements were agreed by both. It's not something you get taken by surprise by. The issue this Landlord has doesn't appear to be the how, but the when.
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2021, 08:56:23 AM »

Sorry…I don’t know how to reply to individual posts! Sorry….I didn’t mean to hijack this topic as a woe is me story…our tenant was paying his rent and then occasionally the payments were late or the incorrect amount. I suppose I was just trying to warn the OP that it could easily escalate to the nightmare we are having. Yes we have thought about paying him off…but as his Mother is pulling his strings and knows the letter of the law regarding lettings with our luck he’ll take our money and still stay put!
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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2021, 09:01:00 AM »

My main advise for Kettlemen would be appoint a Solicitor who knows the letter of the law in this area. We paid around £150 each for the section 21 followed by a section 8 but wanted to be sure we had all our ducks lined up correctly.
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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2021, 09:03:34 AM »

I wasn't suggesting you pop around and casually drop a bundle of £20s on the floor and wink at him.

I'm sure there are ways and means of getting to a point where the idea would work... after all, you haven't done anything that would make him not trust you, right? So you could say that you'd give him a reasonable reference... (troubling moral dilemma)... and something towards his Deposit or first month of rent (but you'd need to see something showing the next tenancy - maybe a tenancy agreement if possible, could be a hard thing to get sight of)... and, even, moving costs (which you could pay directly, of course). It's hard to talk to Tenants when they own you money. Tenants find it hard to talk to Landlords when they owe money, But the question I have is whether you have open lines of communication where ideas like this can be discussed.

Maybe he is incapable of holding a conversation like this at this time. I don't know. You can't go wrong following the letter of the law... but, as you know, it is likely to cost you in the long-run, and it will be a long-run.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 09:07:12 AM by Hippogriff »
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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2021, 09:05:18 AM »

My main advise for Kettlemen if things do deteriorate would be appoint a Solicitor who knows the letter of the law in this area. We paid around £150 each for the section 21 followed by a section 8 but wanted to be sure we had all our ducks lined up correctly. But hopefully things can be resolved without going down that route and everyone will be happy.
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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2021, 09:16:52 AM »

I wasn't suggesting you pop around and casually drop a bundle of £20s on the floor and wink at him.

I'm sure there are ways and means of getting to a point where the idea would work... after all, you haven't done anything that would make him not trust you, right? So you could say that you'd give him a reasonable reference... (troubling moral dilemma)... and something towards his Deposit or first month of rent (but you'd need to see something showing the next tenancy - maybe a tenancy agreement if possible, could be a hard thing to get sight of)... and, even, moving costs (which you could pay directly, of course). It's hard to talk to Tenants when they own you money. Tenants find it hard to talk to Landlords when they owe money, But the question I have is whether you have open lines of communication where ideas like this can be discussed.

Maybe he is incapable of holding a conversation like this at this time. I don't know. You can't go wrong following the letter of the law... but, as you know, it is likely to cost you in the long-run, and it will be a long-run.

Thank you for your reply..Honestly we have tried talking to him and he refuses to engage verbal or through text and email. We realise now that his alcoholism is out of control and he’ll probably never work again and therefore finding somewhere to rent after he leaves ours will be out of the question. He has debts piling up all around him and once he leaves out place he’ll probably end up back with family. We’ve really tried to help him but I think it’s past that point.
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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2021, 09:43:11 AM »

I don't think there is any need for Kettleman to pay a solicitor.He needs to write to the tenant stating that the rent must be paid into his bank at the set time,and that further failure to do so will mean Section 21 at the appropriate time. This all sounds disorganised on both sides,so I am wondering if the landlord has followed all the correct procedures regarding deposit protection,gas and electricity checks,EPC etc. If not it could account for the tenant's lack of respect for her side of the bargain. How does she pay when he goes to collect in person? Cash?   
Accidental Landlord
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2021, 11:29:36 AM »

There is currently a week of arrears, its more the problem of the tenant consistently re-arranging collection dates, asking for time, ignoring me when i turn up for the rent etc, i have spoken to the tenant and explained that the rent needs to be paid on time as i rely on that to pay for the properties mortgage etc, had this conversation numerous times now to no avail.

The rental contract is in place until Feb next year, each month is becoming an issue collecting, i've had to re-arrange work and personal schedules as the tenant has a habit of constantly changing when i can collect rent.

There is a rent payment date  in the contract for a set date each month and its never been adhered too.

If my tenant isn't willing to stick to a regular payment date, what are my options ? At the moment rent should have been paid 7 days ago, went to collect yesterday - only to be told the tenant has gone to see a relative in scotland for a week and i have to wait another week to collect! asking for a bank transfer results in me being ignored

The sentence I have put in bold rings alarm bells for me in particular because this was exactly how my truly awful tenant began their tenancy. The deposit and first month's rent in advance both received fine but when it came to the rent payment after that, they had never put in a standing order on the correct date as per the contract and each month it varied by a few days until it was late enough for me to charge interest towards the end by agreement. I would not have even bothered to do this had they been at all cooperative. They gave notice before I could so it was a case of a very, very painful wait for them to finally vacate. In your case, I would also have issue and personally would wait until you can give notice at the earliest possible time per your contract. You're going to be more than halfway through the tenancy anyway. I am thinking that if you try to evict her beforehand (if it's possible) she might stop paying the rent altogether and be even more uncooperative.
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2021, 01:43:24 PM »

How does she pay when he goes to collect in person? Cash?

That question is naughty. I can't issue a WARNING to you (because I'd never do that)... but don't think it went unnoticed.
Global Moderator
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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2021, 03:03:10 PM »

Sorry,promise not to transgress again.
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2021, 04:54:15 PM »

Quote from: heavykarma
Sorry,promise not to transgress again.
There are witnesses to this promise!
Global Moderator
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2021, 10:03:49 AM »

I could end up being reported to the Moderator,now that would be interesting!
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