UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi Guys,
Just wanted some advice please
So I have a house in England that has been managed by a property management company in England for the past 5 years (I live in Northern Ireland).I am now fed up of the frequent increase in management fees every time and want to start managing it on my own.When I discussed this with my property manager she told me that there are 300 or so legislations that she's protecting me from and my management fees is peace of mind.She also said that if I make mistakes in management I might end up in jail or pay £30,000 in fines etc.
Is she just trying to scare me into not leaving?
Should I give managing the property on my own, a go and just stick to them for tenant searches?
Please let me know-Your advice will be appreciated.

Firstly, the buck stops with you; not the agent, so mistakes on the agents' part (and they do happen) will expose you anyway.

I manage two properties myself because I'm so close (geographically) to them and I've had negative experiences with local agents who have actually put-off good tenants! I find my own tenants using online agents (Upad, Purplebricks, etc) where I get to meet applicants myself and show them around the properties. The online agent does the reference checks for me and provide me a report which makes the decision making easier.

There is a lot of legislation to be aware of, but there are also plenty of resources to help, including the HMRC website which makes it reasonable for me to manage the properties. The key for me has been to understand what I need to deliver at the start of the tenancy (deposit protection, EPC, right to rent, etc.), I do 2 inspections a year so I can spot potential problems before they snowball, and having a network of plumbers, electricians, etc who I trust to work at the properties has made a massive difference.

Personally, I'm not sure I'd take on the challenge if I was further away so I'd measure the success of the agent by the state of the property before and after a tenancy, whether you're getting market (or above) rate for the property, and keep a check of the issues that arise and how they've been resolved. 

Just my personal opinion....

Thank you so much for your reply and useful tips.I really appreciate it :-)
This is my first property (new house) and I was too nervous to manage on my own so I've let them do it for the past 4 years.I've now realised that they're probably scamming me.Over the years I kept telling them that I was looking for a long term tenant and they said every time that the tenant is thinking of long term tenancy.
However, after 6 months the tenant hands in the notice and then I have to pay them full first months rent again for tenant search services etc.
I'm thinking of now getting a good landlords insurance which covers everything and get in touch with a good handyman,etc in catterick (that's where my house is)in case anything happens.
Plus it's only an hours flight and an hours drive for me to get to the property so thinking of taking the risk.
Their entire behaviour has changed once I told them I want to manage on my own, they've become rude and abrupt in conversations.
Any further tips will be highly appreciated as well.x

I always advise Landlords to self-manage. It's good for the soul, and no-one cares about your asset more than you do.

The only exclusion is when that Landlord is geographically-challenged in terms of their location and that of their property... oops... that said, it's hardly likely you'll provide a worse service than the Agent did, but you never know. And... even if the current / next Tenant suffers... at least the Agent will not be getting paid.

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 26, 2019, 09:15:24 PMIs she just trying to scare me into not leaving?

I should think she pretty clearly is trying to do that.    If you're paying a high fee then she won't want to lose you as a client.

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 26, 2019, 09:15:24 PMShould I give managing the property on my own, a go and just stick to them for tenant searches?

As you're across the water and you can't keep an eye on the property, my advice would be to dismiss that agent and engage an alternative firm instead.

Many thanks for your reply and advise.
I think it would still be cheaper for me to fly out every now and then if something goes wrong  instead of paying her 15% every month for barely doing anything.The house is only 4 years old (was a new build) so there's hardly any maintenance issues.
Despite the geographical issue,I think it's worth the risk.
Your advice and tips are always welcome.

Quote from: Mortimer on April 30, 2019, 12:09:34 AM

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 26, 2019, 09:15:24 PMIs she just trying to scare me into not leaving?

I should think she pretty clearly is trying to do that.    If you're paying a high fee then she won't want to lose you as a client.

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 26, 2019, 09:15:24 PMShould I give managing the property on my own, a go and just stick to them for tenant searches?

As you're across the water and you can't keep an eye on the property, my advice would be to dismiss that agent and engage an alternative firm instead.

Thanks so much for your reply.
You're right about the geographical limitation but I'm thinking of flying out every 6 months and keeping in touch with the tenant frequently.
They're also hesitating in providing me with his details as I've emailed them twice about it.I got a new landlord agency agreement (even though I had signed one when I signed up with them) as they're saying the agreement needs to be signed every time a tenant moved in.When I asked them why I was told to sign it or they won't be able to get the tenant to move in.
It just all seems really fishy to me now.

The Agent, you could find, considers the current Tenant to be their Tenant. Maybe that sounds perverse, but we've heard it all. They may insist, if you take over management, the tenancy ends. It's always good to go over the Terms of Business you signed so as not to be surprised by a curve ball.

Goodness,15% is steep.In this area the range is 10-12%.I won't bore you with my tales of woe,but the worst nightmares have happened when I thought the agents were doing their job.I was even daft enough to think I was a valued customer (Here's our favourite lady") Just watch that mask slip when you complain to them.
I am not sure that the logistics in your case will be that easy,but it is worth giving it a go.Some trusted tradesmen,and the means of getting keys to them,should be a priority.
The agent will be trying to scare you with horror stories of what mistakes you could make.Tell her you have not just come up the Lagan in a bubble!


 

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 30, 2019, 01:06:47 AMYou're right about the geographical limitation but I'm thinking of flying out every 6 months and keeping in touch with the tenant frequently.

It's not this that matters, though... it's when you need someone on the ground, right now, at short notice... not pleasantly-scheduled six-monthly visits for handshakes and slaps on the back. You can't ask the Tenants to wait for the leaking shower to be repaired until your next visit five months from now. Therefore you need to be pragmatic in your approach... one approach I've taken with a Tenant is to make it clear that any expenditure up to £50 for any kind of remedial work can be gone ahead with without me attending the property (or even approving it, really). This has seemed to work and they've called a local, tame, Handyman out once or twice themselves and then sent me a receipt via digital photo and I've just paid it.

If they told me the boiler wasn't working, though, then I would be round there and (and if it was kaput) I'd be getting in 3 quotes and speaking to the companies about their recommendations. As I made clear - my advice is to self-manage, except when you're distant. Your situation is almost a perfect example of what I'd term distant (I guess you could be in the US of A or something).

All that said, if your Tenant is perfectly self-sufficient then things can go swimmingly. It will be most painful at Tenant changeover... when you want to do check-outs and viewings and check-ins etc. - that's what a day trip won't work very well.

I still use an agent for finding a tenant.This fee also includes the deposit protection, viewings and check-in.For an extra £75 he would do the check-out and take photos if I requested it.I always leave an information package for tenants to stop them pestering-sorry-contacting me about stuff.

First question I would ask you is are you up to speed with all the various bits of legislation that your agent referred to? If not, don't self-manage as it could be the most expensive "saving" you ever try to make. Find an agent (who has all the right insurances in place) that you think you can work with and your life will be significantly easier. Self managing even from 50 miles away can be a pain and I use an agent for my stuff because although geographically they are less than 15 miles away, they are on the other side of London so a three hour round trip unless it's midnight!. Managing agents should earn their money by taking the stress away from you rather than stressing you out.

They have finally sent me the letter giving details of the tenant and fortunately didn't talk about the tenancy ending because the management services will no longer be required.
I think they were really gutted as the tenant this time has signed a minimum of 12 months tenancy and they're losing quite a bit of money because they won't be managing a relatively easy property anymore.
Thank you for being so encouraging about this, it has certainly put come of my nerves at ease.

Quote from: Hippogriff on April 30, 2019, 06:11:03 AM
The Agent, you could find, considers the current Tenant to be their Tenant. Maybe that sounds perverse, but we've heard it all. They may insist, if you take over management, the tenancy ends. It's always good to go over the Terms of Business you signed so as not to be surprised by a curve ball.

They have finally sent me the letter giving details of the tenant and fortunately didn't talk about the tenancy ending because the management services will no longer be required.
I think they were really gutted as the tenant this time has signed a minimum of 12 months tenancy and they're losing quite a bit of money because they won't be managing a relatively easy property anymore.
Thank you for being so encouraging about this, it has certainly put come of my nerves at ease.

Quote from: heavykarma on April 30, 2019, 07:48:12 AM
Goodness,15% is steep.In this area the range is 10-12%.I won't bore you with my tales of woe,but the worst nightmares have happened when I thought the agents were doing their job.I was even daft enough to think I was a valued customer (Here's our favourite lady") Just watch that mask slip when you complain to them.
I am not sure that the logistics in your case will be that easy,but it is worth giving it a go.Some trusted tradesmen,and the means of getting keys to them,should be a priority.
The agent will be trying to scare you with horror stories of what mistakes you could make.Tell her you have not just come up the Lagan in a bubble!

I've already had a bad experience with them a year ago when they had found a tenant who was on benefits (without asking me) and she didn't pay a few months rent and also left marks on the carpet, broke the hand basin and even left skid marks in the toilet.I ended up paying losing about £3000 (cleaning, repairing and replacing carpet costs) and still haven't recovered that money despite using bailiffs and all.All this while under their watch so i don't think it can be any worse than that.They've taken advantage of and fooled me for being a young (somewhat naive) woman
I'm giving this a go now and hopefully it will go ok.If not, i'll just deal with it as I've definitely not just come up the Lagan in a bubble 

Quote from: Hippogriff on April 30, 2019, 08:20:17 AM

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 30, 2019, 01:06:47 AMYou're right about the geographical limitation but I'm thinking of flying out every 6 months and keeping in touch with the tenant frequently.

It's not this that matters, though... it's when you need someone on the ground, right now, at short notice... not pleasantly-scheduled six-monthly visits for handshakes and slaps on the back. You can't ask the Tenants to wait for the leaking shower to be repaired until your next visit five months from now. Therefore you need to be pragmatic in your approach... one approach I've taken with a Tenant is to make it clear that any expenditure up to £50 for any kind of remedial work can be gone ahead with without me attending the property (or even approving it, really). This has seemed to work and they've called a local, tame, Handyman out once or twice themselves and then sent me a receipt via digital photo and I've just paid it.

If they told me the boiler wasn't working, though, then I would be round there and (and if it was kaput) I'd be getting in 3 quotes and speaking to the companies about their recommendations. As I made clear - my advice is to self-manage, except when you're distant. Your situation is almost a perfect example of what I'd term distant (I guess you could be in the US of A or something).

All that said, if your Tenant is perfectly self-sufficient then things can go swimmingly. It will be most painful at Tenant changeover... when you want to do check-outs and viewings and check-ins etc. - that's what a day trip won't work very well.

Thank you for that tip about repairs under £50.I'll definitely keep that in mind. Are there any other tips which would be useful in my case?I'm just across the Irish sea in Northern Ireland so relatively speaking not too far.I was planning to sell the property in England and buy one here in Northern Ireland but I'm hesitating because I might not get a good deal because of brexit.I'll see how it goes in the next year or so and then make a decision.Thanks so so much.

Quote from: heavykarma on April 30, 2019, 09:08:46 AM
I still use an agent for finding a tenant.This fee also includes the deposit protection, viewings and check-in.For an extra £75 he would do the check-out and take photos if I requested it.I always leave an information package for tenants to stop them pestering-sorry-contacting me about stuff.

I've just paid £180 for them to get pictures of the property before the tenant moves in..That's excluding the costs of the tenant search, vetting etc..
I didn't think i could be a landlord and broke but that's exactly my situation at the moment.

Quote from: David M on April 30, 2019, 12:46:47 PM
First question I would ask you is are you up to speed with all the various bits of legislation that your agent referred to? If not, don't self-manage as it could be the most expensive "saving" you ever try to make. Find an agent (who has all the right insurances in place) that you think you can work with and your life will be significantly easier. Self managing even from 50 miles away can be a pain and I use an agent for my stuff because although geographically they are less than 15 miles away, they are on the other side of London so a three hour round trip unless it's midnight!. Managing agents should earn their money by taking the stress away from you rather than stressing you out.

The £30,000 fine she threatened me with was if i had charged the tenant fee for ridiculous things.I've read the new legislations and they all sound like common sense to me.Contrary to what she said its not straight £30,000 for a single mistake you make as you do get an opportunity to correct your mistake if you've made one before facing penalties.I'm not planning to  discriminate against a potential tenant on the basis of their race, religion or disability or be inhuman and charge them fees for nothing so I'm hoping ill be fine.

I have just had a new tenant.The agent is a freelance,started a few years ago.he was recommended to me.He found this tenant,did the viewings and checks,took photos,protected deposit,got the lease signed,handed over the essential documents, checked the standing order,and met her there to give the keys.The fee was half the first month's rent plus VAT. (which he did not have to charge previously) I arrange my own tradesmen, but if I was really stuck in an emergency he would do this,and get his commission from them.It is worth asking around,and doing some research.I find this the best compromise for me.

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 30, 2019, 02:29:45 PM
I'm hoping ill be fine.

Best of luck! 

On changeover, make the agent transfer the deposit to your account and immediately lodge it with MyDeposits or one of the alternatives in your personal name.  Refund any deposit that's in excess of the Tenant Fees Act 2019 directly to your tenant.  Visit your tenant and spend a couple of hours going through the inventory with a fine tooth comb looking for agent's mistakes.  Ask the tenant if they're willing to dissolve their current tenancy agreement and sign a fresh tenancy (for the same term at the same rent) that's compliant with the Tenant Fees Act.  Give them your contact details in writing and ask them to sign a copy to say they've received them.

Quote from: Mortimer on April 30, 2019, 04:34:55 PM

Quote from: Tropi217 on April 30, 2019, 02:29:45 PM
I'm hoping ill be fine.

Best of luck! 

On changeover, make the agent transfer the deposit to your account and immediately lodge it with MyDeposits or one of the alternatives in your personal name.  Refund any deposit that's in excess of the Tenant Fees Act 2019 directly to your tenant.  Visit your tenant and spend a couple of hours going through the inventory with a fine tooth comb looking for agent's mistakes.  Ask the tenant if they're willing to dissolve their current tenancy agreement and sign a fresh tenancy (for the same term at the same rent) that's compliant with the Tenant Fees Act.  Give them your contact details in writing and ask them to sign a copy to say they've received them.

Thank you so so much.
Do you have any templates etc for tenancy agreement according to the new legislation?
Also is there a particular landlords cover insurance company you'd recommend?

Regards.

It's always safe to use the most recently-published tenancy agreement from this page:- https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/model-agreement-for-a-shorthold-assured-tenancy -- this is the tenancy agreement that central government encourage you to use, so you can't be blamed if there's a problem with it.

Personally I choose to operate without landlord's insurance cover, but I'd always advise a smaller-scale or longer-distance landlord to get it.  I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with the insurance market at the moment.

I personally start by covering liability. I really dont want a tenant claiming they have tripped over a lose flagstone and it has cost them their health and their job (not to mention their ability to pay the rent).  The standard landlord policies seem to cover this.

Quote from: Mortimer on May 01, 2019, 01:42:13 PM
It's always safe to use the most recently-published tenancy agreement from this page:- https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/model-agreement-for-a-shorthold-assured-tenancy -- this is the tenancy agreement that central government encourage you to use, so you can't be blamed if there's a problem with it.

Personally I choose to operate without landlord's insurance cover, but I'd always advise a smaller-scale or longer-distance landlord to get it.  I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with the insurance market at the moment.

You're a star!Really appreciate all your help.

Sorry to bother you again but it's like a can of worms have been opened-Just saw the inventory that was taken and one of the glass doors has a cracked glass,there is patch painting on so many walls and paint splatters on the radiators.The carpets are full of furniture marks and there are spots etc on floors (😭) I don't know what to do as they said that everything was sorted during checkout.My house was only built 4 years ago 😭 what should I do?

What is the thrust of your question? I can't understand properly because my assumption was you have a Tenant in-place, living there, paying rent... as you are taking back control, it would be very wise to realise you have that Tenant in place, or shortly to be so (and who is happy with how it is), they are living there, paying rent... and take stock of everything you need to at next tenancy end. Whatever this Tenant does beyond fair wear-and-tear is down to them... but, obviously, you can't try to land them with everything if what I'm inferring (that this could've happened during any tenancy in the past 5 years - note that your first post says the Agent has managed it for 5 years, but you're telling us it was only built 4 years ago) is correct. You are resetting the situation. Do that.

A bad Inventory / Check-Out seems like just another example / reason of the Agent not acting as professionally as you would hope.

Quote from: Tropi217 on May 02, 2019, 12:18:31 PMwhat should I do?

Don't make any decisions now.  Visit the property and check it yourself. 

If this house was a new home and you were emotionally invested in it, then you're probably in for a difficult time.  Seeing what tenants have done to a property that you love is quite a lot like being burgled.  You may experience very strong feelings during your visit.  You will need to conceal them.

Landlords develop thicker skin than a rhinoceros and their business plans allow to fully redecorate each property from top to bottom every time the tenant changes.  You will need to either do this or else sell the house with a sitting tenant.

Meet the tenant and have a cup of tea with them.  Draw up a fair and accurate inventory of the property as it is now.  Hippogriff uses exactly the right word when he says "resetting".  Forget what it was, and describe what it is.