UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hello - I rent out a ground floor flat with a foyer area shared with the upstairs neighbour.
When last there with permission looking at repairs  in the garden via a side access gate, afterwards  I entered the shared front door of the property into the shared foyer area as the consumer unit is sited there and I wanted to measure it for a fire proof box to meet regulations . ( it actually had one already fitted)
The tenant wasn't there but I left my walking stick,  so on her return she must have known I was there and reported me to the council's housing department . 🙄
As it's a shared area I didn't think I needed to request permission . Can anyone confirm whether I was right or wrong ?

I cannot see that you are in the wrong. What did the council say, presumably you explained the situation?  Is the upstairs person your tenant also?

Quote from: heavykarma on March 19, 2025, 10:42:43 AMI cannot see that you are in the wrong. What did the council say, presumably you explained the situation?  Is the upstairs person your tenant also?

I just emailed them back and said  what had happened . They said they'd talk to her . In the last month she's also reported me to housing standards as she didn't believe me when I said my builder said the walls weren't damp. I've had to go through the whole inspection saga only to find .... No damp and issues but issues  an enforcement notice for work that I'd already told the tenant I was having done ( fan in bathroom , new cooker hood ) Shes clearly miffed -  her average gas use is less than half EPC and Ofgem estimate -  that the reason for mould is her not turning heating on .
The flat is epcD , I'm trying to find anything in new RRB update from January about EPC but can't find anything ? At this point I think I could issue a section 8 for damage to property ( 3 years of not heating ) in order to get a new tenant before rrb comes in if it stipulates EPC -C for new tenancies but hovering as if we can get through this she's likely to stay for several more years

There's nothing about EPC C in the RRB at present. But that's likely to be something that can be done as a minor piece of legislation on its own (as there are already regulations about a minimum EPC level of E that can be changed).

Use a s21 to evict the tenant, you have no chance with a s8 on the grounds you have suggested.

Quote from: jpkeates on March 19, 2025, 11:15:02 AMThere's nothing about EPC C in the RRB at present. But that's likely to be something that can be done as a minor piece of legislation on its own (as there are already regulations about a minimum EPC level of E that can be changed).

Use a s21 to evict the tenant, you have no chance with a s8 on the grounds you have suggested.

Sadly I can't issue s21 due  to enforcement notice . By the time I can it's likely RRB will be in place .
Section 8 grounds would be

Failure to heat the property causing damp mould and damage to fabric of building

Failure to follow contract which stipulates the flat should be heated to prevent damp and mould

Failure to ensure CO2 monitor battery changed and in breach of contract

Belief that she has been growing canabis on the property
 

In my opinion, you won't get a possession order on those grounds, particularly given that there's an enforcement notice in place.

Are you sure the enforcement notice is serious enough to be an obstacle to a section 21 notice?

Have you already got someone lined up to do the fan and cooker hood?  Get that sorted asap, send the proof to the council and slap s21 on her while you still can. Why would you want several more years of this?   

U

Quote from: heavykarma on March 19, 2025, 01:18:07 PMHave you already got someone lined up to do the fan and cooker hood?  Get that sorted asap, send the proof to the council and slap s21 on her while you still can. Why would you want several more years of this?   

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I have but due to improvement notice I can't issue S21 for 6 months and I'm sure by then , the RRB will be in place . Hence looking at S8

As you have been advised those are pretty thin S8 grounds, unless you can find a mandatory ground from the link below you  will not get eviction

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/section-8-evicting-tenants/#grounds

Still there is hope; If you have you got a report from a contractor detailing that the mould was caused by Tenant lifestyle, then you can inform the Tenant and tell them that you will be taking legal action for the recovery of the repairs for resolving their damage, as the deposit is not going to be enough to cover it.

Then you issue a letter before action for the damages that is constructed such that it complies with Practice Direction Pre Action Protocol (see below)

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct#3.1

You will explain that you wish to come to an amicable resolution and are open to mediation in accordance with pre-action conduct.  If she refuses this the Court will likely take a dim view.

Then via the mediator the first question will be "under what conditions are you prepared to drop the claim" you then explain that you are prepared to drop the claim to the value of the deposit on conditions she surrender the deposit via the scheme back to you and if she leaves of her own volition within a month or if she leaves within 7 days she can keep the deposit. 

You make it clear you are not evicting her or forcing her to leave, you are simply exploring options under alternative dispute resolution under the objectives of pre-action protocol and that you would be prepared to accept to drop the matter out of Court under the above conditions.

You can explain that if she remains in the property and continues to damage the property then you reserve your right to claim for such damage and repairs again as and when they occur.

If she does not agree to settle you go ahead with your claim for damages, you want as much 3rd party evidence as possible, that means letters from the Council saying that they found no evidence of mould, evidence from bona fide contractor (with a web presence and probably VAT registered) that the damage was caused by lifestyle choices, failure to air the property, not using heating, drying clothes without opening the windows.




Objectives of pre-action conduct and protocols


3. Before commencing proceedings, the court will expect the parties to have exchanged sufficient information to—

(a) understand each other's position;
(b) make decisions about how to proceed;
(c) try to settle the issues without proceedings;
(d) consider a form of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) to assist with settlement;
(e) support the efficient management of those proceedings; and
(f) reduce the costs of resolving the dispute.

Quote from: Jago68 on March 19, 2025, 11:22:49 AM

Quote from: jpkeates on March 19, 2025, 11:15:02 AMThere's nothing about EPC C in the RRB at present. But that's likely to be something that can be done as a minor piece of legislation on its own (as there are already regulations about a minimum EPC level of E that can be changed).

Use a s21 to evict the tenant, you have no chance with a s8 on the grounds you have suggested.

Sadly I can't issue s21 due  to enforcement notice . By the time I can it's likely RRB will be in place .
Section 8 grounds would be

Failure to heat the property causing damp mould and damage to fabric of building

Failure to follow contract which stipulates the flat should be heated to prevent damp and mould

Failure to ensure CO2 monitor battery changed and in breach of contract

Belief that she has been growing canabis on the property
 

I also wondered if the enforcement order was rather heavy- handed. Do things like cooker hoods and bathroom fans count as being urgent legal obligations for landlords, especially if you can show you had got this organised and were waiting for the tradesman to visit?