UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi
I currently use a letting agent, that in the beginning was ok, but over the last year seem to slowly be getting worse, and it just seems to be one thing after another.  Firstly  they forgot to get a new tenancy agreement signed, (So i was a little surprised to receive a months notice that the old tenants were leaving) which they admitted was their fault and agreed to waive their fee to find a new tenant. Any work that needs doing they call me about to give me a quote, but their contractors are so expensive I end up finding someone myself anyway most of the time.  They keep trying to charge me for a new annual gas certificate (which is not due for 7 months) I have now just found out that they have left my current tenant without cold water in the kitchen for a week while they waited for a contractor, so I have had to sort that myself aswell. 

So my question is how to I get rid of the letting agents?  I first started with them Oct 2012, but do not remember signing a contract, and cant find any copies of one in my records.  Do I need to give them notice or can I just get rid of them straight away as they are not adequately doing their job?  And also what do I need to do about the deposit, it is registered with TDS but the letting agent is holding it?  I am also assuming that I can keep my current tenant, as although they found her tenancy contract is serperate?

Many Thanks

Well, you really do need to read the Terms of Business you would be likely to have signed with them. Failing that, an assumptive firing, citing the reasons you've given us. But, however, this turns-out, you need to get that deposit protected under your own Landlord ID. This is a perfect example of why allowing Letting Agents to do this for you is a bad idea.

Please be careful of advice received from websites (including my own) and always do your own research.
Obviously I cannot understand your full situation from a small blog....

Nishynash
I did exactly this sometime ago for pretty much the same reasons..
My suggestion is you don't let on that you are sacking them.
Do the following.

1. Ask them to transfer the deposit into your name.  Tell them that your "friend" (that would be me) has told you [make up plausible reason....e.g.  that it is increasingly difficult for agents to represent landlords in court so you need to take control of this], You will of course need to....
A. Find out which deposit scheme they have used
B. Register and set up an account so you can provide the Landlord ID so they can transfer it. 
This is a simple task they can do in no time at all so buy an axe and go and sit menacingly in their office until they do it.

2. Now the tricky part...the tenant is probably paying the rent to the arseholes agents.
You need to have some kind of relationship with the tenant beforehand as that will make this easier, which you may do as seems you have fixed things for them already.
Draw up a short amendment letter which amends the appropriate clauses in the tenancy agreement so the payment details are your bank account. You may also have to amend/remove references to the agent.
Go to the tenant and explain the situation [make up plausible reason, e.g. Agent is not making timely repairs hence cold water and you will do a better job.]
Get them to sign the letter and tell them to change the standing order (if they have one)
Timing is key and silence is golden you need the agent to pay you last months rent they received.
I really hope they are not paying cash -- if they are then get them to set up a standing order.

3. You now have to consider yourself free of all the stuff the agent has done before...(if they have done anything) they won't help you now ...so make sure things like Prescribed Information for deposit has been properly served.  Make sure Section 21 is served. Things like fire risk assessments etc etc etc are now all yours to take care of.  It also wouldn't hurt to get the tenant to sign a "my smoke alarms are working" form and anything else you can think of.

4. The best bit, kick back and see if the agent tries to chase you for anything...if they do then ignore them.
Depending on how hard they chase and what the agreement between you and the agent says (if they can produce one) and how nice a person you are (I am not) then you might decide to be benevolent and pay them something. 
My agent didn't even bother and we are now happily separated.

Best of luck

I hired the "services" of a "professional" letting agent for my first two lets as I was new to this. In the end I came to my senses, after both tenants left under less-than-ideal circumstances (one abandoned the property and one had to be evicted - both damaged the property, got it into a filthy state and left with unpaid rent totally thousands). So much for an agent taking care of things for me. Hard lesson learnt - I did everything myself after that. The other thing I learnt was that I could be held legally liable, and therefore vulnerable t fines or worse, for failings in the management of the letting because the agent didn't do things; the law says it is the landlord's responsibility to ensure it is compiled with and having a sloppy managing agent is no defense. That was scary - the thought I could be behind bars and my scummy agent could still be in business - but it also raised the question in my mind "what is the point of letting agents?". They don't absolve you from any legal liabilities, they don't do the brass tacks of what a managing agent is meant to do and what you are paying them for, and for that "service" you are paying hem a fee month after month.

I can't offer any advice about "sacking" your agent, as my relationship with mine just ended naturally (if you can call it such) when the tenancies ended. And I think TheAngryLandlord has covered it extremely well anyway. All I can do is tell you that from my own experience I was much better at this (even as an amateur) than the agent that was supposedly working for me.

That said - and this is important - I only had the experience of one letting agent so I'm basing my opinions on that alone. I am sure there are many excellent agents out there - but if yours isn't one I reckon the above advice is brilliant. I wish I'd done that. Good luck Nishynash! Let us know what happens.

Thanks for the responses. I think i'm gonig to do what theangrylandlord suggests

I have already dealt with the tenant on a number of occassions and she is also not happy with the agents, and the charges she has to pay them for routuine inspections and things, so I think she will be quite happy to transfer payments directly to me and me manage the property.

I have details of the current registration of the deposit, so will sort out getting an account so that the deposit can be transfered. What happens to the money when I ask for it to be transfered. The agent physically has the money, and registered it with TDS? 

Why do I need to serve a section 21? I thought that was for evicting tenants? I want to keep the current tenant and they are in fixed term that ends 26th June 2016

What do I do about getting the keys and gas certificate etc back as the agents hold all of these?

Hi NishyNash
Regards the deposit..by your post I assume you mean the agent has kept the cash but has the deposit on an insured only scheme? Is that what you mean?
If that's the case then they likely charged you for the fee to have it on the insured scheme, so all they need to do is transfer the deposit in the TDS system and give you the cash.  Should not be an issue. They might make you wait for the bank transfer if they have deposited the money in a bank account but that should be 5 mins as these days everyone uses the faster payments system.  (Don't forget the axe  )

By law you should already have a copy of the Gas Cert (technicality) but you can use this fact to get a copy from the agent - they should have no reason to not give it you.  They probably charged you for the service and added their fee on top.  Do this today and get them to scan and email it...(start the process).  The old carbon copy ones had different colors: landlord, engineer, tenant.  (Note legally the tenant should have a copy as well, if the agent didn't give you a copy maybe they also did not give the tenant one either ...simple to sort out). 
Listen to the wise words of NorthAngle ... You Are Legally Liable (not the agent).

The section 21 -- that's a topic in itself but briefly if you serve it before you need it then it will save time when you need to kick folk out.  Do some research and you will see why ...but do explain to the tenant its not an instruction to leave, it is just routine communication.  Note serving a section 21 is an important task and maybe later you will need to prove how/when you did it...do some research on this.  I can provide more advice if you need after your research.

The keys are the last thing you ask for when everything is done.  You have a choice...if you are planning to change the locks anyway when the tenant leaves then maybe no incremental risk for the agent to hang on to them - you know what the agent is like - I don't.  Other option is to go pick them up but do that as the last step, at that point it might become obvious what is happening but you can come always come up with some ruse about needing to let an engineer in or something if you want to avoid a confrontation.

Best of luck
Please don't forget to let us all know how you get on...your learnings can be added to mine to help the next Landlord.

Thanks, will sort out transfer of deposit Monday.   rent is due next week so will wait till that gets passed to me from agent, then will sort everything out with tenent before next is due. Will let you know how it all goes.

Hi all,

Sorry to resurrect a reasonably old thread but I'm in exactly the same position with my agent and wondered how things turned out for you, Nishynash. It'd be great to hear of your experience, especially regarding the deposit as mine is also registered with TDS through the agent.

I will only use Letting Agents to 'Find' Tenants and gladly pay their finders fee and that's where it stops with me  -  I will never have an Agent to look after and Manage my property - it was a laughable/painful experience - Eg whilst a tenant was living at our property and (it was managed) there was a leak - did my manager let me know about it? NO! not until a week later when the damage was done and stained etc - I looked at my contract and immediately got onto the phone - it was written that a Lettings Manager would advise the Landlord of any emergency as soon as possible - Furious I demanded the answer  'what part of an emergency is a leak?' The Manager paid for her mistake - Floor/Decoration etc
Gotta tell you the next experience, then I'll leave it there  - our property is damp proofed walls and floors are tanked so it was very important that is was clearly understood to the  Manager in letting the  Tenants know that no piercings whatsoever was to be done to any external wall on the ground floor. So, during the tenancy, as we got to know the Manager did her House Inspections and sent us the report, nothing untoward or any problem advised to us - until tenant moves out - we go in with our Manager to Inspect the property and there was this Sky Cable drilled straight through the external wall  - the Damp Proof Guarantee was now invalid  - I think it was then she stood on tip toe and winced - it was another pricey mistake.

'Lettings Agent' just saying the words make me shudder!

Hi Nishy Nashy

Some of the responses to your post have helped me out with a few queries of my own regarding the letting agent we used, I'll refer to the manager by a pseudonym to protect his identity, let's choose, 'Dick', yes, that works. (PS I am new to everything landlord and only learning as I go along and this site has been very useful and people swear, a lot, so I like it even more)

So Dick started dicking about in Jan 2015 and ruffled the feathers of the tenant with whom we have never had a problem (my ailing father is the property owner)
The tenant did agree to the rent increase (we fitted double glazing) and did sign the revised annual AST but witheld rent - because, as I found out later - they had reported several repairs to Dick who had done nothing about them, they hadn;t inspected the property, they hadn;t done the annual gas safety check...etc

Tenant shouldn;t withold rent under any circs but they did eventually start paying on time again in March. In our agreement with Dick, signed Jan 2012, we had full rent guarantee (Dick took over from the previous manager, Vic, she was great! - shame) So Dick, had to pay the rent to us for Jan & Feb under terms of rent guarantee.

The repairs - short story - were completed....in June :-0

In the meantime, the pissed off  tenant contacted me direct (via Vic) begging me to take mgt back from the agent who they felt was rude, useless & mistreating them

Silence is golden, I said nothing to Dick of this, then once again tenant witheld July and August rent

me 'Dick, rent guarantee?'

Dick 'No, sorry, we think tenant is subletting and under terms of our contract rent guarantee is null and void'

What had changed in their living conditions since January? Nothing!

Inreasingly incensed with Dick, I just kept on emailing him about this little thing and that little thing - ie the rent and a bodged repair to a leak in the kitchen - and he eventually got wind that tenant had approached us direct and then proclaimed:

"You went behind our backs.! You  liaised with the tenant directly! YOU have broken the contract with us but as there have been all these problems, and YOU have taken their side, I don;t want to deal with YOU anymore (hooray) and am terminating our contract with immediate effect. And btw, they didn;t pay the rent in JUNE, I used their deposit to pay you the rent!!

WTF? How is that even possible? the contract with agent stated clearly that agent to hold deposit in protection scheme

I asked for the paperwork....hahahaha....he hung up on me, after telling me there was no paperwork about a TDS

So our Dick never held the deposit in a secure account!! He spent it on the rent & I now have a tenant with no deposit - things are improving and they haven;t witheld anymore rent  - & tenant assures me he will pay half of it this month and half of it next month on top of the rent. And right about now I should be renewing the annual AST and serving the section 21 thing but how can I do any of that without having a deposit in a TDS?

And really, I am now wondering whether I should write to an Ombudsman somewhere about Dick spending the deposit on the rent and not having the deposit in a secure account after all - and doesn;t that also mean that actually HE broke the contract with us way before the tenant got pissed off and approached me directly?

Ho Hum. - maybe angrylandlord has some advice for me on this?

Good luck and hope you enjoy a much better time of it without a shitty agent to cause you grief

Please be wary of advice from a forum (especially my own)
Do your own research

Samshickles
I'm afraid the prognosis is not good. 

The fact that you (the agent is practically irrelevant for the purposes of the De-Regulation Act 2015) the Landlord have not protected the deposit in an approved scheme means:
1. The tenant can via the court claim for up to three times the deposit from the Landlord (not the agent)
2. You cannot serve a section 21 until (a) the above claim is made and settled or (b) you have returned the deposit (per the Localism Act 2011)

Your problem is that you do not have a deposit (or rather the deposit was used to pay the first month rent?)
I take from your post then the tenant is the one that has not paid the rent (rather than the agent stealing it).

This is messy...very messy.
Suggestions and these are straw clutching exercises now.
1. make sure that tenant is aware that he is one month overdue - you will need to provide a clear statement showing all the payments made and ensure the first payment is clearly labelled as DEPOSIT and not RENT.
The summary of this statement should show the tenant is one month (plus the other withheld payments) overdue.
So they need to make overpayments in addition to the one they have agreed that covers the withheld rent.
Get that sorted first.

2. I dont know your tenants but this what you could do...arrange to sign a new tenancy agreement. (can claim removal of agent as reason).
On the day that you renew take the equivalent amount of cash as the deposit.
Explain to them that you will return the deposit to them and THEN take another deposit in respect of the new agreement.
This bit sounds childish but needs to happen in the same meeting:
1. give them the cash
2. Tell them to sign a receipt for the return of the full deposit value
3. Sign the tenancy agreement
4. Take the cash back and give them a receipt for the new deposit

PROTECT THE DEPOSIT YOURSELF!! AND NEVER LET AN AGENT COLLECT THE RENT OR PROTECT THE DEPOSIT !! 
Serve the Prescribed information etc etc etc etc (whole list of new items now needed at/before execution of tenancy agreement).
DO NOT SERVE A SECTION 21.  You are now under the auspices of the De-Regualtion Act 2015 and therefore need to wait 4 months.

You are now in a position that
(a) you have breached your intial obligations under the first AST but there is nothing you can do about that now.  The tenant can come after you now any time in the next 6 years (even if they leave the property)
(b) you returned the deposit under the first AST
(c) you took a new deposit for the new agreement
(d) you have done everything you need to at start of a new tenancy
(e) in four months you can serve a S21

Now as to the agent
What does the agency agreement say?
Technically unless the tenant makes a claim for up to three times the deposit then you have not incurred any financial loss and so you have nothing to chase the agent for in court.  You should however send him a letter telling him if the tenant claims against you that you will seek via the small claims court to recover sums awarded against you.
If he communicated in writing that he used the deposit to pay rent then he is truly dumb.
You can also complain (I doubt much effect) to any professional body the agent is affiliated to if any.  I doubt Dick is a member of the Property Ombudsman.

Best of luck.

      

Thanks for the response & suggestions, AngryLandlord

You've confirmed my thoughts re using their rent as the deposit and saying their rent is outstanding - had my father's cashflow been more fluid - this is something I would have done sooner. As it is several chain reactions have taken place since July - closure of his business due to ill health, paying surveryors and solicitors bills re commercial tenant rent review, sched of dilaps and various other things which have, like buses, all taken place at the same time and without a pause for breath

Your input has helped clarify my position - even though you recommend I remain wary of it  - & I feel more certain of taking the appropriate actions.
I shall load my son's Modulus Nerf gun and fire away - he pimped it so the darts come out harder and faster.

BTW, Dick did refuse my request that he confirm in writing re the lack of deposit account paperwork - not such a numpty after all?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond - much appreciated!!!!!

All the best
S 



Thanks

I told the agent today in writing that I no longer require their services with immediate effect. Their communication is woeful at best and I've ended up sorting out most things myself. Why have a dog and bark yourself?

Thanks to the advice given above by TheAngryLandlord, I've created a TDS account and have instructed the agent to transfer the deposit protection to me and transfer the cash. They also have some other money of mine that they've 'kept on account' ahead of obtaining a new Gas Safety Certificate which isn't even due yet. They'd better play ball and not try to mess me about.

I've only recently discovered this forum, but already feel less 'alone' in sorting this out which is a massive help. I plan to stick around here and not be a one (well two) post wonder.

The meaning of the word immediate is seemingly lost on my agent. Their response to me telling them I no longer require their services "with immediate effect" is to ask if I mean at the end of the AST period next month.

You're taking their lunch. Expect resistance... or just sullenness.

I'm currently awaiting contact from the Withdrawals Team. The longer they take, the more my decision is vindicated.

Ah, they have an entire team dedicated to this... that sends its own message.

I thought the same.

I've had a reply from the 'team'. I apparently need to give 60 days notice according to their terms and conditions. I don't remember ever seeing these terms and conditions never mind agreeing to them.