UK Landlord Forum / Life

What happens when a tenant denies original receipt of EPC/GSC prior to moving in, and claims no copy of How to Rent was ever received..? I have issued a S21 but my tenant is refusing to answer calls, letters, text or personal visits, even when they are clearly at home. I made the mistake of enclosing copies of the original documents with the S21 so I now have to issue another, with no enclosed documents or risk invalidity through an attempt to be thorough ( as advised by a not so marvellous legal department ).. we live and learn..so that's three weeks rent lost and a delay even before we start..

Now I'm reliably informed that they intend to drag this out whilst saving for a deposit on another property. The only loophole they have mentioned to an associate is denying they were given the forms and invalidating my S21 as a result.The tenancy started in 2013 and they have stopped paying rent but have requested HB to be paid directly to me, it is less than 1/4 of the rent, and now they won't communicate at all, so I am assuming the gloves are off...!! And no, the associate won't get any more involved as my witness, before you suggest it..

The original AST, EPC and GSC were given at the start of the tenancy and a copy of HTR was posted by hand sometime in 2015, with a witness.. they since asked for a copy of the AST as it was " lost when we changed the kitchen around"... now it seems they intend to deny any of it was ever there..

Is it my word ( and that of the witness ) against theirs..? Is this a legal waste of 2 months or is there something I am missing here..?

I will instruct solicitors and intend to reclaim all costs and lost rent after possession if this is how we are playing, but it's not something I want to go through again,

All experience I suppose, but I could do with some pointers on this one..

You should have a current GSC, renewed each year... I mean, you seem focused on the one from 5 years ago. Other things won't be relevant in 2013... some didn't even exist? to make your question a bit clearer, it's best to put dates, in order... and then ask what you think you're liable to have done, and did, and how you might prove that... for example, I hold all my documents on a property URL and provide that link directly in the AST - that's good to prove the Tenant had access, but I also have them mark their initials in a box around things like "test the smoke alarms" and "Right to Rent Checks were performed" as well as taking photographs of ID etc. in the Check-In document. This is retrospective for you, I guess, but could be a learning experience. Others may do things differently.

Hello again, and thanks for the reply.

I do have a GSC for every year, but my question is how can I prove that my tenants ever received the original one. I focus on this because, as I believe, not issuing one before the tenant moves in would make my S21 invalid. This seems to be an issue that the tenant intends to rely on to prolong the court decision to grant a possession order. When they move in all my tenants receive the same folder containing all relevant forms but these tenants asked for some replacement doc's and said they'd lost the folder when they needed to claim HB.

The total lack of response to letters, texts, phone calls and visits, even when I know they are at home indicates the attitude I can expect and I am trying to establish my position in relation to a courts attitude. The S21 I issued on 2nd September is probably invalid because I included replacement documents after advice from a legal company, they have since suggested it was a mistake and advised me to reissue the form, without any other enclosed papers, using an impartial witness for the delivery as a recorded delivery posting can be refused at the door.. and I'm sure it would be, given the current attitude of the tenant.

As we speak I am awaiting advice before reissuing the S21 but anticipating the next round of the litigation.

Any clarification on the situation from landlords who have experienced the process would be welcome as it is, oddly enough, the first time I have had to do this. I'd also like to know if an accelerated possession order precludes me from reclaiming, at a later date, the lost rent and the legal costs involved.. it looks like a very long haul ahead of me and some advice would be gratefully received .

When you say some things won't be relevant what do you mean..? I thought all tenancies were expected to be equally treated with respect to provision of certificates etc after October 2018.

I seem to get further away from clarity with every passing day.

For your information: Tenant moved in after being handed the AST, GSC, my personal contact details, EPC and keys in 2013. A copy of the original AST documents were handed personally to the tenant in 2018 on request. They said they'd lost the original file. If they now say they never had it and I don't have your URL type support ( I like the idea and will amend my future AST's to include it ) where do I stand. My witness to the original exchange will support my claims but is a former partner and will therefore probably be seen as biased..?

Does the 2013 commencement date work in my favour or against me.? Is it even relevant..?

Quote from: bloofox on September 20, 2019, 07:40:43 AMWhen you say some things won't be relevant what do you mean..? I thought all tenancies were expected to be equally treated with respect to provision of certificates etc after October 2018.

The Government's How To Rent booklet didn't exist in 2013.

Even you seem to be unclear on the EPC angle... you're supposed to have shown an EPC to a prospective Tenant, say, at viewing, because it is supposed to form part of their decision-making process (it never does)... and at first you say they're going to deny receiving that prior to moving in, but you say they receive it as they move in.

I think the 2013 tenancy start date works in your favour (I didn't check if you renewed at any point).

What I would do is break the problem into pieces... it might feel like you're sinking at the moment. Deal with one thing at a time... the GSC should be first. You should at least have your own copies to prove it exists / existed, and always has been current... then it becomes much less of an issue about proving if the Tenant ever had it - because you can prove it existed, it was paid for and it passed, and you get a triplicate completed, so if anyone believe them it'd be like you saying "I went to the trouble of getting it and then didn't give it to the Tenant, why would I do that?" once that is firmly established, the other stuff may be treated much the same.

The GSC is easiest because it's always been required.

Likewise EPC... does it exist, has it always existed... is it on the register, was it linked to in the advert back in 2013? If the answer is all yes, then it's kinda fair to at least assume the Tenant has it... if, for any reason, you didn't have an EPC in 2013... and the date of the only EPC on file is, say, 2015, then it'll obviously go against you.

Then look at each one in isolation and decide - was it even required? Then if the answer is "yes" worry about proof... and it may come down to your word, but your word will surely count for more if you appear organised.

Quote from: bloofox on September 20, 2019, 07:40:43 AM
The total lack of response to letters, texts, phone calls and visits, even when I know they are at home indicates the attitude I can expect

Your tenants are on the verge of losing their home. If they're doing everything they can to delay that, it doesn't mean they're being malicious: they're just being human. Beware of overdoing the attempts at contact: you don't want to find yourself accused of harrassment.

As Hippogriff says, gather what proof you can - if you can prove you did even one of the things they allege you didn't do, then it undermines their credibility with regard to the rest - and be clear about the routine process you go through with every tenancy. If it's something you do routinely then, on the balance of probabilities, it's more than likely that you did it with this tenancy and the tenants have just lost the documents.

Thanks to both of you for the replies,


I'm sorry if I seem unclear about the EPC, I'm not. They were shown it when they came to look at the house and it was included in the file they were given when they took the keys. That's the only two occasions it was ever discussed then or since. It expires next year and will be on the register until renewed. The How to Rent was delivered by hand in 2015 and then again, although it would be an updated version, when the first S21 was delivered ( and therefore invalidated the whole process.. living & learning there..)  The deliveries were witnessed but only by friends.. I may be overthinking this but underthinking a situation never helped anyone either, right ?  No other AST or updated rental agreement were issued since the start of the tenancy in 2013. We are periodic since the original expired without amendments of any sort.

Also, I get why they're acting like this but it doesn't excuse intending to lie to prolong the process and cause additional costs using a perceived loophole. I am very aware of the need to moderate contact and won't even go to the property without being accompanied by a female, I appreciate your thoughts on that one entirely..

It does feel like I'm sinking because I have been made aware of a possible delaying tactic that  I never heard of before and I wondered if anyone else had ever come across it..

We'll have our day in court and I'll let you know how it goes..