UK Landlord Forum / Life

My tenants are now 2 months in arrears (the due dates were 27th November & 25th December). They have been telling me they will transfer the outstanding rent for the past few weeks, however they have continuously changed the payment date leading up to Christmas & now they are saying they will pay when they can & I no longer want them as tenants. Initially most of the rent was paid by Housing Benefit with the tenants having to pay a small weekly top up, which they regularly paid late but paid eventually, however a few months ago their circumstances changed & they had to start paying the full amount themselves - that's when the real problem started.
I advised them via email a couple of days ago that I was giving them notice & they told me I can't give them notice via email - I have to give them a section 21. I have subsequently found that a section 8 applies to rent arrears.
My questions are:-
  is notice via email acceptable followed up by a section 21 &/or 8? If so, what date would the notice start?
  should I give them a section 21 & a section 8?

I think section 21 is more reliable to get them out quickly.Section 8 could give them the opportunity to argue their case and play for time.Not sure,but I think you need to wait until the final month's arrears is 14 days late.
My agents hand-delivered the Section 21 I served,otherwise I would use recorded delivery Royal Mail.

At what stage is the tenancy? Is it a fixed term or is it a periodic tenancy? Did you take a deposit, and was the deposit protected? This is all relevant to what sort of notice you give them. If you contact the council and tell them they are 2 months behind with the rent they should pay the housing benefit direct to you.

You need to answer allybops questions to give a good answer.

If you send a notice don't use recorded Royal Mail as Heavykarma was trying to helpfully suggest.  This can be dodged by the tenant.  Sending it by normal post, from 2 post offices with proof of postage is deemed to be served and the belt and braces approach.

Dates are needed to understand your best route forward. If you provide, we can advise. Main objective here is to proceed efficiently and assuredly. You have Tenants who think they know more than you, and it seems to be the case, so you are already on the back foot.

Quote from: Allybops on December 30, 2015, 04:03:56 PM
At what stage is the tenancy? Is it a fixed term or is it a periodic tenancy? Did you take a deposit, and was the deposit protected? This is all relevant to what sort of notice you give them. If you contact the council and tell them they are 2 months behind with the rent they should pay the housing benefit direct to you.

The tenancy is renewed yearly & currently until May 2016. The deposit is protected. The housing benefit no longer pay their rent which is why it is now a real problem.

Quote from: Riptide on December 30, 2015, 09:52:15 PM
You need to answer allybops questions to give a good answer.

If you send a notice don't use recorded Royal Mail as Heavykarma was trying to helpfully suggest.  This can be dodged by the tenant.  Sending it by normal post, from 2 post offices with proof of postage is deemed to be served and the belt and braces approach.

I've just answered Allybops. Would it not be acceptable to deliver in person accompanied by a witness?

Quote from: Hippogriff on December 31, 2015, 08:57:11 AM
Dates are needed to understand your best route forward. If you provide, we can advise. Main objective here is to proceed efficiently and assuredly. You have Tenants who think they know more than you, and it seems to be the case, so you are already on the back foot.

The tenancy is renewed yearly & currently until 13th May 2016. Deposit is protected. They will have been my tenants for 4 years in May & have a history of paying the rent late or only part payment on time. Do you need dates for anything else?

Section 21 is a notice that you want your property back at the end of the tenancy period. So you could not give them 2 months notice until the 12th of march, and you don't want to wait that long to get things moving.
Myself, I would give them a section 8. A section 8  is a legal warning to pay up in 14 days or the matter will be transfered to the courts.
Their is a good write up on this site on how to fill one in and how to serve it.
That is how I would go about it. Although others on this site may have other views or a little more to add.

Section 8 can possibly have them evicted earlier than May. Section 21 will be more guaranteed but can't come into force until the end of the fixed term.

Could go belt-and-braces approach?

I would always prefer to use a Section 21... you don't even need to explain why you're taking that course of action. A Court must award possession (if all the admin. is correct). Section 8 cab be messier as you have to choose Grounds and some are discretionary and the Tenant can defend.

Quote from: Allybops on December 31, 2015, 01:46:35 PM
Section 21 is a notice that you want your property back at the end of the tenancy period. So you could not give them 2 months notice until the 12th of march, and you don't want to wait that long to get things moving.
Myself, I would give them a section 8. A section 8  is a legal warning to pay up in 14 days or the matter will be transfered to the courts.
Their is a good write up on this site on how to fill one in and how to serve it.
That is how I would go about it. Although others on this site may have other views or a little more to add.

Thanks Allybops for your advice - lots to think about

Quote from: Hippogriff on December 31, 2015, 02:30:09 PM
Section 8 can possibly have them evicted earlier than May. Section 21 will be more guaranteed but can't come into force until the end of the fixed term.

Could go belt-and-braces approach?

I would always prefer to use a Section 21... you don't even need to explain why you're taking that course of action. A Court must award possession (if all the admin. is correct). Section 8 cab be messier as you have to choose Grounds and some are discretionary and the Tenant can defend.

What if they continue not to pay the rent once I have served a section 21? 
Also how would it affect things if I wanted to sell the property (as I considered last year)?

You can sue for the unpaid rent after they have been evicted. At that time you will know the total.

How will it affect an attempted sale? Who knows. I mean, only an idiot Landlord would buy it with non-paying Tenants and prospective occupiers will want vacant possession anyway.

Seems like they need to be gone.

Quote from: Sylvester on January 01, 2016, 06:34:57 PM
Also how would it affect things if I wanted to sell the property (as I considered last year)?

How will having non paying tenants in a house that you are in the middle of a legal process of eviction going to affect a potential sale?  Badly, very badly indeed.  I can't even see you getting to the viewings stage TBH.

The number one priority when a tenant goes to the dark side is to get your house back as quickly and as efficiently as possible. When a tenant gets too far in the red with the rent, they just give up trying.
If you are not sure how to serve a section 8 it may be worth while to get a Solicitor who specialises In evictions to serve then their are no mistakes. 
You then have that extra scare factor of having a legal experts name on top of the letter. Whatever you do do it quickly, it is very depressing having tenants in a house who are not paying rent. I know I have been their.
Let us know what you decide, and how you get on.

Quote from: Hippogriff on January 01, 2016, 08:05:51 PM
You can sue for the unpaid rent after they have been evicted. At that time you will know the total.

How will it affect an attempted sale? Who knows. I mean, only an idiot Landlord would buy it with non-paying Tenants and prospective occupiers will want vacant possession anyway.

Seems like they need to be gone.

Just as I thought about the sale. (Although estate agents advised I would sell it as a BTL tomorrow (with good tenants in situ!) being a large 1 bedroom flat)

Thanks for your advice - they do indeed need to be gone!

Quote from: Riptide on January 01, 2016, 09:36:51 PM

Quote from: Sylvester on January 01, 2016, 06:34:57 PM
Also how would it affect things if I wanted to sell the property (as I considered last year)?

How will having non paying tenants in a house that you are in the middle of a legal process of eviction going to affect a potential sale?  Badly, very badly indeed.  I can't even see you getting to the viewings stage TBH.

Just as I thought. Thanks for your advice

Quote from: Allybops on January 02, 2016, 10:25:11 AM
The number one priority when a tenant goes to the dark side is to get your house back as quickly and as efficiently as possible. When a tenant gets too far in the red with the rent, they just give up trying.
If you are not sure how to serve a section 8 it may be worth while to get a Solicitor who specialises In evictions to serve then their are no mistakes. 
You then have that extra scare factor of having a legal experts name on top of the letter. Whatever you do do it quickly, it is very depressing having tenants in a house who are not paying rent. I know I have been their.
Let us know what you decide, and how you get on.

I so want to give them a section 8 but as you said I need to see someone who deals with these things before making a decision so there is no risk of me getting it wrong.
Doesn't it sadden you that people have no qualms about taking advantage of your good nature?! My fault for being too lenient with them in the past I suppose - I've learned the hard way.
Thanks for your advice - I will let you know what I decide.

Tenants do not perceive that Landlords have a good nature. Even the most normal, well-balanced Tenant can feel resentment towards the person they must pay money to to have a roof over their head. It's a peculiarity of life. They don't resent their car payments in the same way, or the price they pay for the clothes on their back, or the few quid they hand over for a beer... but why should someone have to pay someone else just to have a home. It's immoral.

I am preparing to issue a rent increase to a 'new' Tenant who is coming up to their 1 year anniversary. I have been transparent to them in letting them know this is the way I work, each year there will be a modest rent increase. The look of horror on their face around 6 months ago intrigued me. They're long-term renters, they are even Landlords, but the idea of a rent increase seemed alien to them. When the time comes I feel I will have to serve a Section 13, the first I will have ever needed to do as everyone else just accepts the modest increases. These Tenants have different ideas, I can feel it. They compliment the house and tell me they're very happy there, but there's an undercurrent of resentment regarding the rent. Time will tell if my nose is right.