UK Landlord Forum / Life

As a landlord if I have accepted my error and I am more than willing to return the deposit. However as part of conlensatuin negotiation my tenant is not happy with my counter offer and takes the matter to court even though I've accepted my mistake do I have to pay for my tenant solicitors fees?

If your offer is just to return the deposit and not include any amount that would constitute a penalty, then I would reject it too. The tenant is entitled to a penalty of between 1x and 3x the amount of the deposit per tenancy where the deposit wasn't protected properly or correct prescribed information given if they take it to court. If you've made an offer which they beat after trial, cost assessment as normal. (e.g. you offer 1x, they get awarded 2x) If they don't beat the offer at court, then the court should take into account when assessing any cost incurred after offer (+ reasonable time for acceptance).

In your previous thread, on the same topic, you said - "I understand I have broke the law and that my tenenat is due compensation." - so why do you think compensation is simply the return of their own money? You will need to - and should - dig a bit deeper. You really don't want to go to Court on a hiding-to-nothing. You say here that you've accepted your mistake... but it doesn't really feel like you have (accepted it).

Is "conlensatuin negotiation" a legal term? It has gone over my head.

Quote from: Hippogriff on July 15, 2020, 12:00:17 PM
Is "conlensatuin negotiation" a legal term? It has gone over my head.

Try saying it in a Yosemite Sam voice.

Sorry for the confusion. My proposal will be to return the deposit and a compensation amount that is less than what they are asking for.

The premise if this topic is: if both parties cant agree in the compensation amount and it goes to court am I digging myself into a deeper hole by being told to pay my tenants solicitors fees which could mount to thousands.

Quote from: Newman123 on July 15, 2020, 04:19:36 PM
The premise if this topic is: if both parties cant agree in the compensation amount and it goes to court am I digging myself into a deeper hole by being told to pay my tenants solicitors fees which could mount to thousands.

It depends on who the judge thinks is responsible for dragging him off the golf course. If you don't offer to settle, or make a derisory offer, and it goes to court, then you will be on the hook for the other party's legal costs. However, if you go back to them with something reasonable, they refuse to budge and demand their day in court, then the judge may a) land you with less than they originally asked for and b) refuse to order you to pay their full costs, because they're wasting the court's time with something that could have been settled by the exchange of a couple more letters.

So, you head your offer with the words "Without prejudice save as to costs" - which means they can't use the fact you've made an offer against you, but you can use it to show the court you've attempted to settle.

As to what the offer should be, the bare minimum is 2 x the deposit, as there were two tenancies. If it went to court they'd almost certainly get more than that, because this wasn't a trivial breach, such as protecting the deposit a couple of days late, or failing to provide all the prescribed information on time. It was completely unprotected across more than one tenancy.

On the other hand, if it went to court they wouldn't get 6 x the deposit if this is your first infringement, you're not a bad landlord in other respects and your tenant is in arrears.

So, somewhere between the two - maybe 4 x the deposit, plus their costs (keep them sweet) less the arrears? You end up paying out less than two grand, the solicitors get their fee (and, no doubt, a slice of the loot) and your tenant gets a bit of cash to put towards the cost of his very imminent house move.

Quote from: Simon Pambin on July 15, 2020, 05:05:16 PM
So, you head your offer with the words "Without prejudice save as to costs" - which means they can't use the fact you've made an offer against you, but you can use it to show the court you've attempted to settle.

There's more to cost than demonstrating that there was compliance with the Pre Action Protocol which requires parties to show they attempted to resolve the dispute without court. Parties don't get punished just because they rejected an offer. They get punished if they reject an offer from the other side that they then fail to beat at trial.

If you only offer say 2x, but they end up getting awarded 4x by the court, the tenant did not waste court's time because they gotten a better result by going to trial. On the other hand, if you offer 2x and that's all they get at trial, then they've wasted court time and will have cost held against them from the time the offer were made (+ reasonable time to accept). Similarly, if they made you an offer for you to pay up say 4x and that's what they get (or more) at trial, then you've wasted court time by not agreeing, and will be punished with even worst cost award than just from lossing if no settlement offer were made by either side.

Thank you both, this is all starting to make much more sense. Just two points I want clarifying.

Does my offer have to be in the form of a part 36 or can I just send an letter and put it in layman's terms what I want to offer the tenant as compensation? As inteallubwant them to deduct the rent arrears bit also reduce the compensation to 3x deposit value

Also in the claimants (tenant) part 36 offer they have offered 4x deposit plus the deposit as settlement and the solicitors fee, so they haven't asked for the max. If indent accept and try to negotiate less and they dont accept my offer can I still accept there original offer as I really dont want this to go to court

Part 36 have binding legal procedure and consequence, a Calderbank offer (basically non-Part 36 without prejudice save as to cost settlement offer) doesn't. The court have more discretion when it come to Calderbank offers.

If you want flexibilty in how you structure your offer, i.e. offsetting against the arrears for example, then I think Part 36 won't fit.

Yes you can accept later. The Part 36 offer can't have be withdrawn if they want to rely on it post-judgment, so practically it'd only be withdrawn if their case suddenly become much stronger / they expect to win more. Not really relevant here I don't think. The longer you wait, the more the other side's cost will be.

In absolute terms, then, if my reading is correct... the Deposit was £695 and you still have it. The Tenants have asked for 4x (£2,780) plus the Deposit equaling £3,475 - plus some costs... however, the Tenant is 2 months in arrears - equaling £1,390. Your minimum liability at Court looks like it would be 2x plus costs... and going upwards towards your maximum liability of 6x plus costs... plus the Deposit of £695... and there's the arrears that I am thinking would need to be handled separately... so best to try and bundle everything together into an offer that can be agreed.

I'm thinking Deposit + 3x Deposit + some costs (maybe £220 for rounding? may not be reasonable) = so something around £3,000... but with the 2 months arrears to be considered... so £1,610 all done and dusted (maybe £1,750 if costs are more - £2,000 if much more). The only question is whether they'd go for that or they've forgotten about the arrears... and expected a bigger payday.

Quote from: Newman123 on July 15, 2020, 09:37:52 PMThank you both, this is all starting to make much more sense. Just two points I want clarifying.

Does my offer have to be in the form of a part 36 or can I just send an letter and put it in layman's terms what I want to offer the tenant as compensation? As inteallubwant them to deduct the rent arrears bit also reduce the compensation to 3x deposit value

Also in the claimants (tenant) part 36 offer they have offered 4x deposit plus the deposit as settlement and the solicitors fee, so they haven't asked for the max. If indent accept and try to negotiate less and they dont accept my offer can I still accept there original offer as I really dont want this to go to court

Hi Newman123, I know you posted this 5 years ago but I'm in a similar situation now  

Can I ask, what was the outcome of your case? Did you eventually settle outside the court?

Quote from: Baconator19 on May 23, 2025, 12:54:35 PMHi Newman123, I know you posted this 5 years ago but I'm in a similar situation now

FYI, Newman123 has not visited the forum since July 2020, so a reply is unlikely.

Also, @Baconator19, knowing whether someone else settled out of court will make no difference to your case, which you have discussed at length in your other thread. Your tenants are not the same as Newman123's tenant and it is unlikely that the same claims firm is being used.

You just need to get on and make your Part 36 offer asap.