Forum Home Search Login Register
+  Landlord Forum
|-+  General Category
| |-+  Landlord Advice & Help
| | |-+  Cryptocurrency Mining

Cryptocurrency Mining

Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: Cryptocurrency Mining  (Read 198 times)
Newbie
Posts: 8

I like property

« on: August 14, 2021, 08:07:17 PM »

My new tenants have a cryptocurrency operation set up in my house. I am seriously worried that this is a fire hazard. How can I stop them from doing this ?
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2021, 10:12:07 PM »

You cannot. This is not Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nepal or hellostan (I am not writing this word, the forum is changing it when I press Save). What rationale do you have behind your as-yet unjustified worry?

What is an "operation" in this case? Please define what you've observed.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 10:14:05 PM by Hippogriff »
Newbie
Posts: 8

I like property

« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2021, 10:45:14 PM »

I think they call it a mining rig. You take the cover of a desktop computer, put a special card in it and then run the device continuously 24/7 without the cover on. They have then placed an electric fan next to the computer to stop it overheating. This set-up sounds dangerous / fire hazard.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2021, 11:03:18 PM »

That's just two devices... a computer and a fan. How is that a fire risk? The card inside will be a graphics card - a GPU. Plenty of computers run with the cover on... probably not 24/7 but games will surprise you. The PC will have its own cooling as well... so it seems like they're doing belt and braces. As long as you're Insured and they're paying the electricity bill... I don't see that you have a legitimate concern. It's entirely possible the cover can go back on, without undue impact. It all seems very modest from what you've described.

If it was an entire farm of PCs, running from a single overloaded socket and they were somehow stealing the electricity, then I'd be more concerned. I think you feel it's dangerous because it's new to you, unfamiliar. Better to mine Bitcoins (other cryptocurrencies are available) than be growing cannabis.,. or running a brothel.
Newbie
Posts: 8

I like property

« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2021, 12:31:58 PM »

Thanks for your advice. It is reassuring. My landlord's insurance says no business or professional activities to be carried out in the house. If the tenants make any money from this operation can it be counted as a business or professional activity and therefore my insurance company refuse to pay out if there is a fire. I have heard stories of mining rigs catching fire and burning down an entire block of flats in Russia and the USA and there are videos on Youtube titled 'Look my mining rig caught fire'
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2021, 01:26:21 PM »

If you want a zero-risk approach to making money you wouldn't allow Tenants to have mining rigs... pets... irons... power tools... fridges... microwaves... use of the oven... TVs... their own key?

But, again, if you wanted a zero-risk approach to making money then you wouldn't be a Landlord.

Mining cryptocurrency likely isn't as lucrative as you may be thinking... certainly not with one PC and a GPU. I am curious if it will even cover the cost of the electricity consumed.

All that said... even if they weren't mining anything... they could easily be a gamer who has their PC on 24/7 and needs a GPU to get the highest frame rate for their immersive high-definition games... you saying "no" to crypto. mining doesn't solve the issue you have. Not really.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 1309

I like property

« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2021, 05:32:57 PM »

My paternal grandfather was a coal miner.He had to down a big pit every day,there's no way he could have done his job from home.I think your tenants are having a laugh.
Newbie
Posts: 8

I like property

« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2021, 08:30:01 PM »

I think my point is if you modify a computer and then need to place an electric fan next to it to stop the device overheating then the tenants know this is a risk. I don't place an electric fan next to my laptop or computer to stop it overheating as I am using my devices unmodified as the manufacturer intended them to be used. My tenants are not using the device as intended by the manufacturer, modifying it makes it a riskier device and then placing a fan next to it means the tenants know there is a risk of it overheating otherwise there would be no need to have a fan constantly blowing on the device.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2021, 11:27:08 PM »

PCs are designed to be modular, configurable and customisable... that's kinda the whole point. It's not considered modification going against Manufacturer's demands if you change the graphics card for a better one - is called upgrading - that's the intention of PCs (as opposed to something like a games console, say). You are betraying your lack of knowledge in this space with your comments - but that's OK as it lets me know that you know very little. Before I could not be sure what you knew. The fan is probably just assisting the rig to run cooler and therefore compute faster. I doubt they have given a second thought to the notion of a fire risk (and I doubt there is one). It's performance they want. There isn't probably a "need" but it's a benefit they "want".

I think you should stop sticking your nose in. Honestly. Respectfully. You don't have the knowledge of what you're talking about to be justifiably worried about it.

Before you ask me if I'll personally indemnify you against a fire risk if you let them keep it (!) the answer is emphatically "no".
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 1309

I like property

« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2021, 11:10:10 AM »

I have asked my tame scientist,and after a lengthy explanation of the maths behind what your tenant is doing,I wish I had never bothered. He doubts that this represents a fire risk,but like Hippogriff  he would not swear to this.He doubts that this will make much money for them on such a small scale.If it really is bothering you greatly you should contact your insurer and have something in writing. I had a tenant who would not stop leaving two bikes in the hall. I checked and found that any such obstruction would have nullified the block insurance in the event of fire,and showed her the letter.   
Newbie
Posts: 8

I like property

« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2021, 11:46:43 AM »

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will check with the Fire Service for a definitive answer or ask them to come do a safety visit and then I will know for sure. Seems strange though that every time I mention this to someone they thing the tenants are out of order doing this.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2021, 12:36:10 PM »

Someone's view is based on a lack of understanding. People automatically think badly of things they don't understand. It's the Tenant's hardware. It's the Tenant's electricity bill. It's the Tenant's home. The person who is out of order is... sadly.. the Landlord.

The Fire Service!  ;D

"Hello, Fire Service!"
"Hello, can my Tenant run a PC that they've taken apart and then upgraded in the property I've let to them?"
"Er... what?"
"I believe my Tenant is engaging in the mining of cryptocurrencies and I believe that there's a fire safety issue."
"Oh, well... how big is the mining operation? What size is the cluster?"
"I already said - they have a single PC - but they've taken out the graphics card and put a better one in there."
"One PC?"
"Correct... but it's obviously running very hot because they're cooling it with a fan."
"Don't PCs have fans anyway?"
"I assume so - but this is obviously running very hot! I tell you, someone told me it's a fire safety issue."
"How hot is it running?"
"I don't know. I've not taken any measurements."
"How do you know it's running hot?"
"It must be running hot - they've got a fan pointed at it! Can't you come out and inspect it and ban the Tenants from doing this in my property?"
"We don't really do that... if you think it's illegal then maybe you could call the Police?"

Please let us know if you get a definitive answer from the Fire Service. I don't see how you can. To me this situation is now so ludicrous I am starting to think it's a wind-up. Whatever you do, don't call 999!

I really think you should butt out, but I don't think you are going to... someone has told you something needs doing.

All the Tenants would need to do to satisfy you is put the cover back on! You can't stop them upgrading their graphics card or running their PC for 24 hours a day. Can you? And... if the cover was never off you'd never have become aware of what was inside, right? This is a perfect example of how too little knowledge causes FUD.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 12:38:51 PM by Hippogriff »
Newbie
Posts: 8

I like property

« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2021, 12:41:08 PM »

I feel I owe an apology to HippoGriff and all other users of this forum. I admit that I did not read the Terms and Conditions when I registered on this site and therefore did not see the condition saying you had to be an expert on cryptocurrency set-ups to use this forum. I am not an expert on cryptocurrency set-ups.

I had assumed this forum was to gain knowledge and seek advice on matters that you may not be an expert on.

My intention was not to cause offence by asking are cryptocurrency set-ups a fire risk. I genuinely can't see how I offended HippoGriff. Do you HippoGriff by any chance have your own cryptocurrency set-up and this is how I caused you offence.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2021, 01:07:58 PM »

You haven't caused offence... I'm just trying to stop you from being daft and intrusive. I have been educating you... or trying to... you seem more keen to listen to someone.

This is one PC.

The mining of cryptocurrency has no bearing... not really... you don't seem to grasp that PCs have a power supply. If the power supply cannot provide enough power for the things inside it (CPU, memory, storage, disks, various other IO cards etc.) then it won't work, right? So it's not a fire risk... because it's running. If the National Grid couldn't supply enough power to run this thing... again... big problem!

The fact is that when CPUs (or GPUs) run for a long time... they generate heat... that's just physics (as opposed to psychics)... and they work better when they're cooler... every powerful computer will have a cooling system... usually fans... but sometimes water (in higher-end PCs - often used for gaming, as I said)... and none of this is a fire risk. The Tenants here have a fan pointed at it... sure, I get it, you are very suspicious of it... but they could just be giving it the best chance of performing the best it can.

Regardless of all that... it's still really nothing to do with you. You've let the property to the Tenants. They have exclusive possession. If you have a real downer on cryptocurrency mining then insert a clause into your next AST and ensure the Tenants are drawn to it... you can't impose your will on Tenants going about their life in a normal way. Certainly not acting on dodgy information and supposition. You are not their father.

How many times do you think Tenants have done things they shouldn't in rented properties? Never? Some? Lots? Letting property is not risk-free. But the risk here is negligible and you don't appear to be listening to that experience I'm sharing with you. I mean... when you first came on here... I thought it was some kind of farm you could hardly look at 'cos it was like the surface of the sun... it's just a PC!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2021, 01:09:41 PM by Hippogriff »
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2021, 01:12:53 PM »

Do you HippoGriff by any chance have your own cryptocurrency set-up and this is how I caused you offence.

No, I have never once even looked into mining... to be honest, I thought the days of profitability from this were long-gone, about five years ago. I don't even have a good PC!  ;) I prefer farming rewards by providing liquidity into pools. I'd explain it to you but you'd probably freak-out. Don't worry about it, I'm not a fire risk.
Newbie
Posts: 8

I like property

« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2021, 08:11:48 PM »

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It was really helpful and is appreciated.
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 4236

Abuse Officer

« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2021, 09:05:01 AM »

I actually spoke to someone about this... in more detail than even I wanted to... yes, people are still mining. A person (kid, really) has relayed that their high-end PC (with a GeForce RTX 3060 - not the latest, but still many hundreds of ús - the 3090 runs much higher) has been mining them, getting about 35,000,000 SHIB tokens per month... the market price of 1 SHIB today is $0.000008865... so about $310... per month, for running the PC 24 hours a day. That's obviously not profit... it's likely profitable, depending on your outlay and electricity prices... but I also suppose he also has the cryptocurrency itself, which he can hold... if that rises in value, happy days.

Yesterday SHIB broke the $0.000009xxx level. It's no Bitcoin. Although both are imaginary.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2021, 10:18:06 AM by Hippogriff »
Pages: [1]
Print