UK Landlord Forum / Life

HELLO

NEW TO THIS SITE

I HAVE NOT REGISTERED A DEPOSIT FOR A TENANT OF MINE - ILL HEALTH ETC - I LITERALLY JUST FORGOT I WAS SUPPOSED TO......NOW THAT THEY HAVE TURNED INTO NIGHTMARE TENANTS - POLICE CALLED EVERYDAY BY THEIR NEIGHBOURS AND THEY HAVE THREATENED OTHERS WITH CARVING KNIFE ETC ETC, PERMANENTLY DRUNK AND ON DRUGS........I GAVE THEM 8 WEEKS NOTICE AND NOW THE COUNCIL ARE JUMPING UP AND DOWN ABOUT THE DEPOSIT NOT BEING REGISTERED ETC AND SAYING THAT MY NOTICE TO QUIT IS INVALID ETC.

I KNOW I WAS DUMB BUT IS THERE ANY ADVICE YOU CAN GIVE ME?  WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW?

IS IT OK TO REGISTER THE DEPOSIT NOW AND THEN GIVE ANOTHER 8 WEEKS NOTICE?

ANY HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED

ALL THE BEST
POLLYANNE

HI POLLYANNE,
I AM IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOURSELF AND I HAVE BEEN ADVISED BY A SOLICITOR THAT I NEED TO GIVE THE DEPOSIT BACK BEFORE I CAN ISSUE SECTION 21 AS WHEN IT GETS TO COURT THEY WILL THROW IT OUT UNTIL YOU GIVE THE MONEY BACK SO THAT IS WHAT I AM DOING. GOOD LUCK, I THINK WE ARE BOTH GOING TO NEED IT.

Hello POLLYANNE,

As the new, tougher, tenent deposit legislation came into force in only April this year, I'm assuming your rental started before April.  So others have reported that retrospectively protecting the deposit has enabed  section 21 notice to be issued.  You could also consider the Section 8 route, which should work if things are literally as bad as you describe: http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/section-8-evicting-tenants/

Best wishes and Please let us know how you get on.

good morning,

thank you jeremy for your help.

yes the tenants agreement started in october 2010.

he is at present three weeks behind with his rent aswell.  he is permanently off his face and abusive when we go to the house to check things out as we have other tenants there too and they all hate him.  three have left us because of him so he is damaging our business very much.  however, he managed to get himself into the council office to complain about us giving him notice etc and the lovely housing department assisted him in getting out of having to leave - bringing up the deposit thing.  i could kick myself for cocking that all up. 

i was wondering that if i just give him back the deposit - its only 150 and obviously get him to sign a receipt for it etc - what has the council got over me then?  i wont have his deposit - at all - in the deposit scheme or anywhere.

i cant believe we let him in in the first place, he is the tenant from the bowels of hell.  i have written to the council and told them everything we have had to put up with - all the threats, knife threats, taking ketamine and drink!!!  the police visits, him falling down the stairs then blaming the other tenants for pushing him - the list goes on and on.  all the council say is that he has rights! and that we should seek immediate legal advice regarding the deposit thing - i said i cannot afford legal advice and they just shrug and then proceed to give that scumbag all the free legal advice he needs.

one time we actually heard the council worker advising people on how to avoid paying the rent and then avoiding getting chucked out - she was blatantly helping them to do the dirt on their landlord!

sorry for ranting!
all the best

Hello POLLYANNE,

I like your idea of returning the deposit money.  Despite it meaning you've sacrificed the deposit, it means you've detatched yourselves emotionally and can see it's better to pay him off than risk further loss of income to your business.

My gut feeling would to say deposit it with an approved scheme like DPS and then give it back to him via them.  You might think this soulds batty, but it provides you with an independent audit trail of your returning the money.

I do wonder if he will resist it's return.  If I were offered the choice between £150 and free accommodation, I know which I would choose.

Even if you think you can't afford it, I would very much suggest some legal advice.  If this goes wrong, you could be stuck with this problem person for a long time.

There are many landlords out there who will share your views from the council.  It's your tax paying their wages to create an unlevel playing field against you.  Talk about biting the hand that feeds!  If the council had to get all its funding from people like the tenant you descibe, they'd all be unemployed.

good afternoon all

thank you all for the great advice and help - this tenant is a nightmare.  he has now threatened my hubby with a knife when he tried to go into the lobby area of the house to sort an electric problem.  he keeps saying he doesnt want to leave etc and that he will go round telling everyone we are so and so's..........trouble is the police dont really care as they have been called out to him lots and even bring him back when he is on a bender!  the council have agreed that he has to leave - byt 5th october but god knows what will happen then.

are there any stronger laws protecting us with his tenancy - as he has clearly broken his agreement in many ways and this latest threat is exceptional and i think we  >:(should be able to have him removed immediately the 5th october comes.....

any ideas?
cheers

Hello POLLYANNE,

It's the Court wich will determine posession over a property.  So I assume what you mean that if he can stay until 5th Ocober, the Council will not object to his leaving on the technicality of the Section 21 being issued witout the deposit being protected.

In legal timescales, 5th October is practically tomorrow, I don't feel you'll have a prompter remedy.

But my concern is that even if the Council remove their objection, the tenant could resist being evicted using either legall or illegal (violent) means.  And you better steal yourself for parts of the house to be trashed.

So I'm going to repear my emplore for you to get a solicitor involved.

hello all,

we have returned this tenants deposit through the DPS and the council have said he has to leave on the 5th.

so we shall see what happens then.  apparently he has told everyone he has prostrate cancer - so i fear he is using this as another lie - which is what he does.....he will stoop so low i cant believe it.

will update this post asap
cheers

Hi POLLYANNE,

That's great news.  Hope things go well.  Please let us know.  Please remember: If one is stabbed by someone who has prostrate cancer, it hurts just as much as being stabbed by someone who does not have prostate cancer.  You're right.  Your tenant can not hypothecate his prostrate cancer (whether truth or story) as an excuse for some deplorable behaviour.

thank you!

today is the day he is supposed to leave - but he reckons he is due in hospital so we shall see.

just got another general question - can i stop taking deposits and just charge a flat fee up front instead as an administration fee - therefore - not have to get involved with the deposit scheme etc?

also - am confused about the right to inspect the property.  am i right in thinking - hmo - you can go  in during reasonable times - without giving notice in writing of your visit?  and then you have to give written notice of 24 hours if its just one house you are trying to inspect?

council dont seem to know the difference when i asked them!

cheers

I believe that you have to give a minimum of 24 hours notice that you will need to enter the property unless it is some kind of emergency, so I always work to that rule.  It avoids most problems.  Do it in writing, and ensure that any letters you post have ample time to get there before the required time is up, even if you subsequently arrive to find them there unopened.

Re the deposit.  I have never heard of anyone taking a flat fee up-front.  A returnable deposit is much more the norm, and is a buffer zone to protect both you and the tenants.  They are also known as damage money, because you can make reasonable deductions from them to repair damage or replace lost rent.  For that reason I would stick with what we all know now - i.e. the deposit system. 

How would you justify taking a non-returnable flat fee?  I somehow doubt it would stand up if you were challenged on it in a court, and would worry that it might be regarded as an unprotected deposit (for which you incur a stiff penalty, I'm afraid).

Hi PollyAnne,

Topseyt is right.  An admin fee which is non-refundable is going to be a real turn-off to prospective tenants.  A admin fee whihc is refundable based on certain conditions (like no damage and all rent paid) will just be deemed by a court to be a deposit in disguise.  And because you worked hard to avoid the law, you'd find yourself likely to get a fine at the higher end of the spectrum, i.e. 3 x the deposit.