UK Landlord Forum / Life

Seeking advice as a private landlord. I have recently rented a 3 bed maisonette to a wife and husband and the wife's sister. They have moved to the UK from Africa a few months ago to work. Approaching 3 months into renting, I have arranged a property inspection, tenants have agreed but the husband and wife tenants later informed me they have moved in her 3 children.

Since this was done without permission, I wonder

. What can or should I ask my tenant about their children e.g passports...etc

. Also i'm concerned about overcrowding, if the property is considered overcrowded due to children being over 10+ would this be considered illegal and if so what steps can I take to rectify situation or remove tenant

I have a 6 month break clause is in the AST if that makes a difference?!

Rent to rent checks don't apply to kids.

You can ask about ages, that's fine - but it sounds like you already know the answer and you can work out, from there, if overcrowding is a real issue. If you all understand the rules on overcrowding (the Tenants may not, for example) - and they're not up for debate or interpretation - and you all agree that overcrowding is present here - then I believe the Tenant just has to apply to the Council for a bigger home... and, if they do that, they are not considered as breaking the law, and neither are you as Landlord. That application can theoretically go nowhere, one presumes.

If you allow a tenancy to become overcrowded (by "allow" I guess that means - "well, I didn't encourage it, but it did happen") and do nothing, then you are breaking the law.

Did you put children inside "" because you actually believe they might be adults, suffering from dwarfism or just youthful looking, masquerading as children?

There's too much potential trouble here. They have misled you, you don't even know if the "children" are really theirs. I would take advantage of the break clause, without entering into any discussion whatsoever. I am not sure I would go ahead with the inspection either. How did you get references or confirmation of income if they have just arrived from overseas? 

Quote from: heavykarma on October 01, 2023, 04:36:15 PMHow did you get references or confirmation of income if they have just arrived from overseas? 

The wife and her sister were renting a room in a house share and the husband was rent a room in another place, since the January. So had been in UK working for 7 months by the time I rented to them. I used MakeUrMove for the reference checks, they have a Right to Rent document too.

I have been told, it is 2 teenage girls and a girl under 10. Is this considered overcrowding now?

It depends on the room sizes and the age of the "teenage" occupants.

If the tenants are happy with their home and, unless the council get involved, are you sure you're not over-involving yourself in your tenant's lives. You've let a property to them, not adopted them.

There isn't really anything you can do to change the situation other than ask them to leave? Which doesn't automatically improve things for them (or you).

Unless the number of occupants is causing damage to the property or you are concerned that there are health issues they're ignoring or care about less than you, what can you do?

I rented a cottage (hovel) in the Cotswolds years ago that was "No children,no pets". I did not mention my young son aged 10 and my 2 dogs. I was desperate, needed the secluded location and low rent. If the agent or landlord  ever found out, they never mentioned it. I kept my head down,paid the rent and never reported any problems. I was thanked for being an exemplary tenant when I left.

I do understand that just because someone is economical with the truth it does not mean they have any bad intentions. Maybe I have watched too many documentaries, but 3 female children suddenly appearing would make me want to know where they had been beforehand? The laws on overcrowding are less stringent than you might imagine,but I think this would count as such.

3 bedrooms if with a living room, if they're all large enough can legally accomdate 7.5 people under overcrowding rules. There's only 5.5 here. The parents are a couple, and everyone else female, so can all double up, so again fine. So in terms of "overcrowding", it really come down to details that aren't available in OP post.

How best to verify the ages of the children? Just in case of one them is 16 going on 25. Is it ok to request Passports? As I have seen many recommendations saying adults over age of 18 year olds living in the property as their main UK residence should be really be included on AST and I may increase rent or activate break clause if any are over age of 18.

Quote from: heavykarma on October 01, 2023, 04:36:15 PMI would take advantage of the break clause

PS. May still activate break clause regardless depending on how things go at the inspection.

There's no particular general reason that adults should be on a tenancy agreement. It may be a requirement of insurance or a mortgage lender, though.

Many people suggest that all adults should be tenants without considering the implications of that, fully. And having people as permitted occupants is pretty meaningless (unless it satisfies the lender or insurer requirements).

Quote from: KnockdownGinger on October 04, 2023, 01:08:18 PMHow best to verify the ages of the children?

There are obvious motivations here... I firstly assumed you didn't want to unintentionally fall foul of any lax overcrowding legislation in this area. To verify ages in that situation I would suggest that a simple written request/response via email would amply cover you.

But now the spectre of opportunity has arisen as a motivation... and it seems you're looking to "catch them out" by identifying children who're 18 years old, so you can raise the rent on them via - what I'd suggest is - a technicality. The answer in this case has to be passports, probably.

I'd suggest you have your motivations clarified... and then act accordingly. The wonderful thing about tenancies is that they don't often (?) last forever, so this problem may naturally be off your shoulders in a reasonable timeframe that means you don't have to over-worry like this.