UK Landlord Forum / Life

I am trying to get possession of my property  by issuing  a Section 21 notice.
I stupidly didn't protect the bond/deposit and my solicitor says I need to return it to them.
I haven't been able to catch them in to return it.
However tenant has called me and I said he could have bond back.  He said he was suspicious and I had an ulterior motive.
So how can I get this cash back to him as he's  not answering the door and he has said he doesn't want it back.
I'm loathe to put cash through the door as he can deny receiving it.
Help!!

Quote from: Fylde Coast on October 04, 2023, 03:19:15 PMI said he could have bond back.  He said he was suspicious and I had an ulterior motive.

Well, he has a point...

You could try protecting the deposit and then instructing the deposit scheme to release it in full.

Sometimes it works: https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2016/06/deposit-returned-confusion/

Sometimes it doesn't: https://nearlylegal.co.uk/2015/08/s-21-and-return-of-deposit/

... but at least then the deposit is protected until it's returned, which might stand in your favour.

If your tenant (rightly) suspects that you are going to give them notice and that you didn't protect the deposit, they can stop you from serving notice.

There is currently no foolproof way to return a deposit to a tenant who isn't willing to accept it.
It used to be possible to give them a cheque as that's deemed to be a promise to pay, but there have been some recent cases where that has been shown not to work unless the tenant has cashed the cheque.

If you push cash through the door the risk is that not only could the tenant claim it wasn't received, but they could also (if they were smarter) claim that they got it, but didn't realise it was their deposit. Then it's just some cash.

You can try returning the deposit having protected it, but I'd suspect that they'd smell a rat.

You might want to explore if there's room to increase the rent to market level if it isn't already.

They know I'm serving notice. I told them last year I would require possession this year.  They said they were looking to move which hasn't happened and rent is in arrears and constantly late.
Could I write a letter explaining that it the cash was the return of the bond and video it being posted through the door.

Quote from: Fylde Coast on October 04, 2023, 03:19:15 PMI stupidly didn't protect the bond/deposit and my solicitor says I need to return it to them.

Are you aware of the potential penalties for this? Did the Solicitor inform you of this, or have you Googled?

I would think a Faster Payment to the rent paying account, with reference "Deposit-XYZ" XYZ maybe being shorthand for the property, i.e. 27MS for 27 Main Street, would be almost foolproof. There's a record of it (from both accounts). I don't see that it can be stopped or refused. Hopefully this is not bad advice, but I haven't written a cheque for almost a decade, I reckon, and I'd not relish standing on someone's doorstep tying to forcefully cram £800 into their bra (it's not as much fun as it sounds).

"You've been served... cash!"

None of my rent payments have details of the sending bank account. I've seen references to this for a while now, is this something unusual about my bank?

Quote from: jpkeates on October 05, 2023, 10:49:21 AMNone of my rent payments have details of the sending bank account. I've seen references to this for a while now, is this something unusual about my bank?

I have not got their bank details.  It just comes in as payment from xxxx.

Surely if I wrote a cheque and detailed on the back that it was repayment of bond. It shows my intent of paying it, whether or not they cash it.  If I photograph the cheque too.

Also I forgot to say that they won't answer the door as they are being chased by baliffs for non payment of bills.

Quote from: Fylde CoastSurely if I wrote a cheque and detailed on the back that it was repayment of bond. It shows my intent of paying it, whether or not they cash it.  If I photograph the cheque too.

It's difficult to be sure, because possession cases are heard in a county court and county court decisions aren't binding. But recent cases have decided otherwise, unless the cheque has been cashed, the deposit hasn't actually been returned.

Have you thought about asking your solicitor how they think you could return the deposit?

Quote from: jpkeates on October 05, 2023, 10:49:21 AMNone of my rent payments have details of the sending bank account. I've seen references to this for a while now, is this something unusual about my bank?

The (Barclays) accounts we use at work show the sender's account details on the web portal but my personal (not Barclays) account doesn't. I don't know whether that's down to it being Barclays v Not-Barclays, or business v not-business, or just the level of access.

Quote from: Simon PambinThe (Barclays) accounts we use at work show the sender's account details on the web portal but my personal (not Barclays) account doesn't. I don't know whether that's down to it being Barclays v Not-Barclays, or business v not-business, or just the level of access.

Thanks, that's interesting.

Quote from: Fylde Coast on October 04, 2023, 06:18:11 PMrent is in arrears and constantly late.

If they get to two months of arrears then a Section 8 might be the way to go.

Quote from: Simon Pambin on October 05, 2023, 01:16:22 PM

Quote from: Fylde Coast on October 04, 2023, 06:18:11 PMrent is in arrears and constantly late.

If they get to two months of arrears then a Section 8 might be the way to go.

Yes they are in arrears  but my solicitor says a Section 8 exposes me to risk, Section 21 is guaranteed possession.

Quote from: Fylde CoastYes they are in arrears  but my solicitor says a Section 8 exposes me to risk, Section 21 is guaranteed possession.

Not with an unprotected deposit its not.

And you have to add the deposit and the potential 3x penalty to any rent owed to be sure of making out the non-discretionary ground for a s8 notice - because there's every chance the court will reduce the amount owed by those amounts.

Quote from: Fylde Coast on October 05, 2023, 01:47:52 PMYes they are in arrears  but my solicitor says a Section 8 exposes me to risk, Section 21 is guaranteed possession.

It's obviously not clear whether the conversation between you and your Solicitor is wholly transparent.

We can read that the Solicitor is aware the Deposit wasn't protected - while their advice to simply return it is correct, it is only half the information you need (we don't know if your Solicitor has made you aware of potential penalties).

We can read that your Solicitor had advised a Section 21 because it is "guaranteed" but we don't know if your Solicitor has made you aware there are numerous reasons a Section 21 may fail in Court... technicalities, to be sure, but the status of the Deposit is only one.

Are you sure you have all you need to-hand?