UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi guys,

As winter has now passed (nowt to be saved from pvc windows any more this year!) and there's a possibility I'll need to have a shower operational in the bathroom later in the year for medical reasons, re-fitting the bathroom has now become my top priority. Advice is needed!

Layout

Its essentially an almost square room - slightly wider then it is deep. If you imagine an almost square rectangle (looking from above) the door is on the bottom line, in the middle of the left-half of this line. The right hand wall is taken up entirely by the bath, and the shower is above the bath, top right corner. Along the "top" wall (opposite you as you walk in) is a sink in the middle, and the lavatory on the left. There is pipework (I suspect) boxed in along that top wall and the boxing in is tile covered and comes to about head height (it stops where the bath is, so the bit of the bath with the taps in and shower above is flush with the "proper" wall). Above this there is a ledge that is also tiled, back to the proper wall. The top left hand corner of the rectangle has a chunk out of it (behind the loo) because for some reason the airing cupboard that is to the left of the room juts into the bathroom at this point, for about 8 inches width and enough depth to be in line with the cistern of the toilet.

Key challenges

1. Currently there's an ancient shower unit above the bath that doesn't heat the water any more. Its from about 1986. The previous owner of the flat had bought a replacement shower unit but "had never got around to getting it fitted". Since the original unit is so low power, I suspect the real reason he "never got around to it" is that electrical re-wiring will be necessary to deliver enough power to a modern unit, and possibly also water-pressure issues too. What sort of work will be necessary to fit a modern power-shower above the bath (ideally one where you have the controls set into the wall and a shower head with a hose that you can detach from its hook on the wall, but with no big box visible). Is it a plumber or an electrician I'll need to be speaking to about this?

2. The boxing in ... I'd like to change it, but I'm not sure how brave to be. Most importantly, the boxing in behind the sink and toilet can stay up to about top-of-sink level, but I'd like the ledge to be at that level rather than eye-height, and for the wall behind to be one big mirror. This may cost a small fortune, but its what I want (it'll add light and the illusion of more space in the room). There's no reason the pipes should go this high. The boxing in on the left (the "airing cupboard" jutting into the bathroom) I'd much rather do away with - it doesn't seem to have any part of the airing cupboard inside it, and I've no idea why they built it this way. That said, I suspect it'll just be too damn expensive or awkward to change. Will a builder who is fitting the bathroom be prepared to get his hands dirty changing (or at least investigating) this boxing in?

3. Door and skirting ... I'd like to change the internal doors and skirting throughout the flat. It doesn't seem to make sense to tile the bathroom up to an old skirting board, then have to remove those tiles when I re-skirt. I don't really want larger internal doors because that'd be a lot of work everywhere, so we can assume the door dimensions won't change, but the door frame thickness might if the skirting changes. So it would make sense to change the door of the bathroom and the skirting inside the bathroom before or during doing the bathroom work. This would also allow the skirting to be extended behind units like the toilet and basin when the old ones have been removed, which will be much easier than waiting until the new ones are fitted and trying to fit skirting around them. Is a builder working on a bathroom likely to be prepared to do this at the same time? It doesn't matter if the door frame on the outside of the bathroom door doesn't match the rest of the flat for a few months until the rest of the skirting and door frames (and doors) can be replaced, although presumably it's a good idea to buy all the frames and doors at the same time to avoid some kind of stock change and lack of matching doors for the rest.

Or, if I'm going for a wet-room type look, should I be tiling right down to the floor on the walls, and then only have the door frame? This might actually simplify things rather a lot!


Would really appreciate your thoughts on this, guys, since every time I start thinking about planning this work I get bogged down in these horrible details, that need to be thought through. Once I start asking builders questions they may be able to provide answers, but I'm not going to have the experience to know if they're charging me an arm and a leg to do something I'd like that's just not really the best approach. As for the rest of it - its quite straight forward. I'm just going to replace the existing horrible beige suite with a new white one. The bath is currently acrylic and I'd like to replace that with something made of steel (is when the shower was working, it felt like standing on a trampoline!!) - I'm hoping the floor will take that, not sure if I need to check. Presumably the bathroom fitting builder will either have the skills (or know someone) who can do tiling, or I'll just have to find a tiler to do that bit. Am also wondering how long its going to take to do all this, because if there's one thing I hate its not being able to be clean so I'm probably going to have to budget for a few nights in a local travel tavern to hang on to my sanity.

Last but not least ... how much do you think all the work will be (roughly) to get this done? I've had a poke around on the bathstore website and that suggests the suite and bath, shower and all that stuff will probably come to around £1000 - £1200. What about labour? I've just checked out Dolphin and they claim to do everything for you but starting from £6K ... seems quite pricey to me.

Help? I keep going around in circles with all this.

V

Hi V
The fact you need a shower makes me think what is more important to you a bath or a shower.
But anyway.
The best way to do a bathroom is to strip it completely down and go back to 4 bare walls.  Just a guideline a 12ftx8ft bath room gutted and fitted with standard furniture, full tiling and plumbing and electrics done should come in at around 3900.  Then it all depends on what you go for, it could be 15k if you wanted it to be.
The place where all your stuff is at the moment is possibly the best place for the new stuff to go, i say this because as soon as plumbers start moving pipes it can get expensive etc.  Look for a guy who can bathroom fit rather than a plumber this way he will time manage and be able to do everything in running order, you dont have to wait one day for a sparky and the next for a plumber bla bla bla.  you will also get a full days work out of him, if a sparky came in he would charge you a full day even thought he was only there for 4 hours !, maybe,.
Boxing in, i love it in a smaller bathroom, it gives the impression that the room is bigger, its also smart looking, i would keep it simple, black/white gloss finish, its clean looking and it does clean easy.
I would only box one wall but this would mean your bath would have to go under the window wall, unless the boxing was in a corner.
Ahh just had a thought, are you talking about boxing the pipes or boxing in the loo and sink with wall and free standing units.
If its pipes then from an empty room you can cut the pipes into the wall with no fuss, they are well and truely hidden then and no need for boxing in, other than that there are some great boxing in skirting boards on the market that will hide pipes etc.
Electric showers, If its on a combi boiler then you can only go to 16 psi which is low end power shower, still nice though, if not then fill ya boots, the tank may need looking at that feeds the shower unit and a rewire is always a good thing on shower V trust me.
To get the shower you are looking for it needs to be gravity fed so a tank will need to go in the loft, but as i said there maybe one there already that they can change around for you.
Skirting and doors will be done around the same time as the tiling maybe before as the tiler will need lines etc.

V a bathroom fitter will do everything for you as he/she will be compitent in elec,plumb,tiling, and the finish and will know all there is to know about anything you have to ask him/her, and will also know what work has been done or needs doing.  Get them on a contract with a time line and a fixed price that you will not deviate from.  Make a scetch of how you want and where you want the stuff to go, just lines the shape of the room with boxes for the loo etc placed where you want them put, they will get the idea.
You may want to consider moving out while its being done as it can be a nightmare unless you got somewhere else to take a pee.
As i say iknow someone who has just dont the lot for 4k.
A tip, get the taps etc fitted on the side or corner of the bath where they can be reached in the future, the last thing you want is a tap that starts to leak and you can not get to the dam thing cos the bath bowl is in the way !.
Pics would be cool V.

Enjoy and you have no need to stress over it, as its an exciting project, one that i have done three times before and love doing,  the small amount of stress is getting the right fitter to do the job, but they are out there, just phone away and get 5-6 quotes.

Forgot to add, get your brief right before you get a face to face going, write it all down and don't veer from it, explain what you want to the fitter * with your plan and brief in hand *
Make sure though, that you don't change your brief half way through this is when coms and the psychological contract between you and the fitter breaks down and problems start

Good stuff, B.

Yeah, I was going to mention that the plumber will be able to fit everything for you, even the power shower. And I like the idea of stripping everything, as Badgey said. You should be able to do that yourself, and you'll save a tonne!

Unfortunately bathrooms aren't my area of expertise; i've never actually fitted one myself

The Chap i know is having it all done next week for 3900k, one man who does the lot and he comes with recomendations.
Shame you dont live close v i could have passed you stuff on. 

I think with the changes down in Cornwall I may be stuck with re-grouting what I have, re-doing the sealant and getting a modern shower installed (one of the ones with the boxes on the wall). The suite will just have to stay.

It'd still be useful to discuss options for the bathroom long-term, though (and hopefully useful for other people to get DIY ideas). Here's some pics of the bathroom ...


To get your bearings ... here's how it looks when you're about to walk into it.




As you stand in the doorway ... bath with shower, sink .... mmmmm avocado ... 




Shower that no longer produces anything but icy cold water




The boxing in behind the sink and toilet that goes far too high ...




... extending into the corner behind the toilet where it meets boxing in on the other wall ... the area above the toilet and sink is where I'd like to have a mirror covering most of that wall.




I've investigated more of the boxing-in situation since writing my first post. It appears the boxing in you see here is all purely for the extractor fan. The airing cupboard on the other side doesn't protrude into the bathroom.




Close up of more relics ... and notice the horrible stipply ceiling. Most of the flat has this, and if I was doing it up properly I'd get someone to skim over it with plaster throughout.




Nowt left to see, time to make for the door ... the bath at the "foot" end is flush with the internal wall.




Hope that helps visualise the questions raised above ... I know you guys love pictures


V

*bump*

The layout seems fine to me. And honestly I don't think you'll be able to move things around without diggin deep into your pockets. In such a small space, you probably wouldn't gain much anyways.

Most modern bathrooms have tiny extractor fans on the ceiling; that bulky thing would irritate the hell out of me. But you can definitely change that to a much thinner, sleeker extractor. You could probably fit that yourself; even if you decided to get a electrician in, it wouldn't cost much at all.

Is that a heater next to the extractor? You could definitely remove that and modernize it.

I don't think it would cost that much to modernize your bathroom, because I think that's all it really needs. Get in nice, clean tiles and a decent suite and remove some of the clutter on the walls.

I think that green/magnolia combo makes your bathroom look a bit aged...

I think 1700-2200 quid would do your bathroom, you would have to prepare it, by stripping the place first.
B and q do some great white sets for a few hundred quid,
A Plasterer 1 day to skim surfaces
A sparky 1 day to fit a heated electric towel rail and an extractror fan and also earth your pipes
A plumber 1 day to fit out the units and pipe work
You 2 days to finish off with paint and faffing about.

If you can get someone to the lot for you i would say with out stripping out would take no more than 4 hole days.
4 days @ 165quid =660

Quote from: Badger on February 21, 2008, 09:28:35 AM
I think 1700-2200 quid would do your bathroom, you would have to prepare it, by stripping the place first.
B and q do some great white sets for a few hundred quid,
A Plasterer 1 day to skim surfaces
A sparky 1 day to fit a heated electric towel rail and an extractror fan and also earth your pipes
A plumber 1 day to fit out the units and pipe work
You 2 days to finish off with paint and faffing about.

If you can get someone to the lot for you i would say with out stripping out would take no more than 4 hole days.
4 days @ 165quid =660

Can't you just go there and do it for her, in your tight workman jeans? I'll get V to take pics so she can share the good stuff with us (me)...

lol and my skinny pearl white tshirt 

Quote from: Badger on February 21, 2008, 11:10:09 AM
lol and my skinny pearl white tshirt 

I was thinking more along the lines of a tight, white vest...

Cheers for the tips guys. I hadn't thought about a ceiling extractor fan. The loft space above the flat is "shared" but I have the access portal, and I can't imagine it'd cause an issue for me to have a ceiling extractor. That'd mean that boxing could come out, too.

You guys reckon the boxing behind the sink and loo can go too without plumbing issues?

Also, I like the little picture you posted pfag - especially the bath with the larger section where the shower is. I hadn't thought that would work in a smaller bathroom, but if I can move the toilet and sink to the left slightly and maybe have a smaller sink it could work really well.

Of course I can't do any of that at the moment - am going to have to settle for a lick of paint, a new bog-standard shower and some re-grouting around the shower to make sure the tiles don't fall off (they did try when I had to re-seal the bath). But one day ... 

I wonder if the existing heater and extractor would be legal if I rent it.


V

I imagine the boxing is there for a reason. Isn't there pipes in there?