UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hello
I wonder if you can help please. 
My AST (12 month) expired Jan 2016. Prior to this (just before Christmas) LL's agent was emailing me about a renewal 12 month ast with increased rent. I battled about the rent but I'm told it's in line with market. I think not. House is ok but freezing and drafty. LL not sufficiently remedied these thing s in my mind. Also a leak under back door not remedied. In the end I agreed (Stc) to a new AST as want to move in 6 months not now. . I received this by email before expiry but have not yet signed and returned. I'm now in SPT which works for me as want to leave in approx 5 months from now  (renewal proposal was going to give me option to break at month 6, which was a bitter pill too tbh).
I Want to know if I stick to guns by not returning signed new AST due to repairing issues (? Has LL breached obligations sufficeiently?) what is the likelihood of losing my deposit in DPS?
Also, I can't recall being served the prescribed information, but could be wrong!
I don't want to be a terrible tenant. I take such good care of the house and don't want to be shafted on large rent increase (London. 11%, includes a premium for break at 6 months. #badasslandlord
Thanks so much!!!

Always be wary of advice from a forum (especially my own)
Do your own research.

Whether you sign the new AST or not has nothing to do with you losing your deposit.
Note if you do not sign then the Landlord can seek possesion upon two months notice (he may already have provided you a section 21 notice (?))
I suspect the agent is keen to get you to sign a new agreement so he can claim a renewal fee from the landlord.
Do you even know if the landlord has requested the new contract or are you assuming he has because the agent is asking for a new contract?

You negotiating leverage increases if you have not been served the PI so you should figure out if you have been served.

Best of luck

Quote from: Disgruntled on February 11, 2016, 08:10:09 PMMy AST (12 month) expired Jan 2016. Prior to this (just before Christmas) LL's agent was emailing me about a renewal 12 month ast with increased rent. I battled about the rent but I'm told it's in line with market. I think not.

Firstly, there's no need to be Disgruntled... but you are, so we'll leave that there.

You are conflating 2 things that should be separate into 1. Simple mistake, we're all Human. Your rent increase and tenancy renewal has nothing at all to do with any disrepair the property may have - real or imagined (it's Human nature to inflate the importance of things in these scenarios as well).

So - let's talk about the tenancy first. Since Jan 2016 your fixed term has expired and you are now - automatically - in a SPT (statutory periodic tenancy) which has the same terms and conditions as your AST did. The Landlord or Agent can ask you to sign a new tenancy, but you cannot be forced to. You can choose to remain on a SPT. Now, if that doesn't suit the Landlord, it's possible to ask you to leave and commence eviction proceedings... but that requires "at least" 2 months notice and you being served a Section 21.

I'm guessing none of that has happened yet? So, your time in the property is going to be at least 2 months. Get me? You're not even forced to leave after the Section 21 expires - all that allows the Landlord to do is seek possession from the Court, by applying for a possession order. You remain in the property. It's not nice, everyone will be Disgruntled by this time - but it's the law.

However, the Landlord can impose a rent increase on you. But they can't impose one on you via email - you can both agree a rent increase via email - that's nice, pleasant, everyone's getting along really well... but to impose a rent increase on you requires the Landlord to serve you with a Section 13 notice.

I'm guessing that has not happened yet? If so, you are still in the "negotiation phase"... the Landlord obviously wants more rent, and you don't want to pay... so is there a middle ground? How much do you not want to pay - well, that's 11%, right? But would you pay 6%?

Again, none of this links to the disrepair - they're separate.

But, if you can remain on a SPT and accept a lower rent increase - is it possible that everyone could be happy?

You get to move on in around 5 months, you only have to give at least 1 month notice to your Landlord on a SPT, he gets more rent for doing nothing (as the SPT already exists, then no new tenancy agreement is required - Agent will cry!)... and the situation could be copacetic.

Now... onto the disrepair... first question is - if you're leaving in 5 months, do you really care? If so there are things you can do - but I'm not going to bother writing about them until you tell me that you really, really care. But - again - what you don't do is conflate separate issues into a single issue - never a good idea - even though, in your mind, you have a simple "renting problem", I get that.

Another route - when an Agent is involved - is to formally request your Landlord's contact details from them and approach them directly to "chat it over".

And, no, I don't mean stalking them and going to their house for a cup of tea... I mean writing to them or calling them. Agents are funny things, they do so hate to give up their control point. Section 1 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 is what you want here... it's very interesting - if the Agent refuses to give you the Landlord's details within a timeframe, they're committing a criminal offence... yes, really. They really don't like it when Tenants know more than they do.

Hi both.
Thanks very much for your interesting input.
I am quite sure I have not been served a s21. Not with my original docs filed and nothing received recently.
I have found what I assume constitutes prescribed info re deposit; w letter with address of holder and sum etc + certificate.

Angry LL - no I don't know if the LL has requested a new contract, but they are a large commercial and resi LL.

Hippogriff - I mentioned the 'disrepair' as I had thought that if the LL was not fulfilling their obligations (wind and watertight, assuming the niggles I'm experiencing constitute these) then they were unable to serve for possession? No?
As above. No s21 yet and no s13.
I think LL would not be comfortable with SPT, but as you say, could just be agent using their powers. However, knowing the nature and portfolio size (lg commercial and resi) of the LL they'll not want SPT either.
Disrepair. No I don't really really care. It's not ideal and feels event more of a rip off. It's the principle more than anything. I'm being asked to pay a substantial increase in rent whilst being the proud recipient of a draughty front and back door, water comes in under back door and other things which (I have argued) mean the house isn't at market standard and therefore shouldn't be such a big rent hike.
I have the LLs (asset manager) email. I was in touch with her last summer whilst my house was scaffolder for 5 months over the whole summer to seek a rent abatement as agent was giving nothing for my loss of garden and light/quiet enjoyment.her stance matched the agents.

I'm feeling forced into having to sign a new ast with rent increase because they are so inflexible and just 100% business/money minded. I understand that's life, but really begrudge, having agreed a new proposed rent of about 6% more (plenty enough to me) I then asked for the ability to break the tenancy, and they would only add a break from 6 months in if I paid another 5% pcm. Harsh!

In summary. No I do not believe any negotiating will be received/agreed. I need my very large deposit back at the end of the day and would not want to risk that.
I could do the S 1 request and take it from there but feel bullied to date and expect more of the same.
How nasty/risky am I being by holding out til end of June?

Thank you
L

If the Landlord was to serve you a Section 21 today and it was valid for, say, 15 April 2016... then you'd definitely end up staying beyond the expiry of it. In that case you'd become liable for their Court costs (around £300) but it would still take them a long time to physically 'get you out'... we are talking months and not days.

So, you could probably hold out until mid-year. No guarantees.

However, it is more likely any Section 21 served on you would coincide with a rental period end date... so if you pay your rent on the 10th day of every month, you would have already gone past this month... meaning they could serve it on you now for it to - most likely - expire after 9th of May 'cos most people would want the expiry of it to coincide with a rental period and you've already paid rent for the upcoming month so they've missed the boat.

And, if there's been no mention of a Section 21 yet, then you are just playing for time... it might take them a while to get their act together and it's not retrospective in any way, shape or form.

So - a strategy for you could be to let them keep thinking you might sign a new AST... let them keep thinking you want the break clause (and they'll get their 11%)... let them keep thinking you're playing ball... but, actually, you're not - you're just stringing them along... you won't sign a new AST (with or without break clause) you'll just stick on a SPT, you won't agree a new rent figure you'll make sure they have to serve you with a Section 13 in due course, which also requires a notice period - 1 month - the new rental amount can't be retrospectively applied... you won't be doing anything except ducking-and-diving... eventually they'll either leave you be, or they'll bring it to a head.

There is no defence to a Section 21 - it is a no fault, no reason route to assured eviction. Section 8 can be defended on the basis of disrepair.

All fun and games... I prefer to play with a straight bat, but that goes both ways.

At a certain point - say, May or something, if you're in the position of them actually going for a possession order, you can say you just need a little bit more time and try to negotiate an assured departure date (which you should stick to to save face) which will save them the hassle... a date, say, towards the end of June? A business, who has no emotional involvement, may go for that.

While in occupation you must, of course, continue to pay the rent.

Your deposit is another entirely separate matter.

There's no shame - truly - in Landlords wanting to get the most return for their investment... profit should not be a dirty word. If they believe they can get more money from another Tenant, or even the current one, then that's what they should be doing. Landlords cannot be perceived as a charity. I am aware that when homes are involved people become emotive, but it's just an investment vehicle with complications (people) for some Landlords, right?

Hi Hippogriff,

Thanks again for this input. Most informative.
Yes completely agree. understand LL's no doubt want to get the most return for their investment. (My landlord is in fact a charity, funnily enough!). Yes, completely appreciate their resi portfolio is an investment vehicle, as you say, with emotive people on the end.

I continue to pay the rent by S/O as per my expired AST.

In Summary then.
Route A is sign up to new AST and pay up/get over it, which we established doesn't sit well with me on various levels, and would only be agreeing feeling forced. I previously sought a bit of flexibility from them but their agents stance did not allow. no flex on break etc, needed by me and gives them back their house in summer when the market is more buoyant (i thought this might make sense to them, but no).
or Route B, as you say above, hold out/stall, keep negotiating and risk a S21 coming over the hill, with a 2 month (+ few days as per rent payment date) notice, and let it go to possession proceedings, knowing that in all likelihood i will not be evicted before the point at which i would wish to vacate.  This really doesn't sit well morally with me but i'm not sure being all conscientious has worked for me much in the past.

You said my deposit is an entirely separate matter? so it cannot be drawn down upon for anything other than rental arrears (none), damage (none) and presume they could for fees (some if it gets that far). other than this, it will have to be returned, yes?

I think my next step will be to request the LL's details to approach them about a more flexible renewal with lesser increase, and see whether they are less staunch than the agents surveyor was. Seems like i'm very likely safe from eviction for say 6 months, but its risky business., and thats my moral decision to make (damn it).

Thanks

I reckon this about sums it up.