UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi all,

Been using your site the past few days and it has proved to be very useful. I just have some questions;


Note: there are two tenants for a one bed flat

1) One tenant was requested to have a guarantor to over their share of the rent however the guarantor agreement has both tenant names and the following clause (Contract 1) Are we able to request to have the agreement re-drawn to stipulate it is for one tenant only?

2) There is an early temrination clause in the contract which comes with a fee. However, there is also a clause that says should we terminate, e need to cover the landlords cost of letting the property at a rate of 7% of monthly rent +vat for the remainder of the agreed term.  How should we go about negotiating this as it seems rather unfair?

3) Utility Clause - Contract states that we must pay a charge to the landlord each month for gas and hot water. Is this for access or the utility bills (we are clarifying with the agency, but just wondered if anyone had this before ). Are we right to request to view the utility bill each month if this is the case? I believe there is a note that says we must inform the landlord if we wish to change utility supplier so it is confusing.

Thank you in advance for reading and any help provided

Is my reading of the situation that you are about to take up this tenancy?

1) You can request whatever you like. Whether you can demand it is another matter. The Landlord won't want to reduce the number of paths they can seek for redress if the rent is not paid, I'd presume.

2) At least you're reading this before signing the agreement - some people don't. If you, as Tenants, were to break the contract then the Landlord should not suffer financially. You can negotiate on the basis of real costs incurred - if you think that would amount to less. The Landlord should not really be able to complain, as they would be compensated for their real costs - which might (reasonably or unreasonably) include a void period. So I would be careful but at least only sign something you have read and are happy with.

3) Gas and hot water? How is the hot water produced? In most properties I'd think the answer would be gas? You need to seek clarity from the Agency, but it may be that that flat shares its supplies with other flats and the Landlord picks up the bills and apportions (equally, you'd imagine) costs to the other flats too - if that is a fixed rate then sometimes the Landlord might win, sometimes (possibly) they might lose (especially if they were a fool)... but, once again, it's a term of the contract and, no, I can't imagine you have the right to demand sight of the bills - what they say doesn't matter, does it? Or does it? Because they're being settled by someone else on your behalf, and you are paying a known cost for that.

If I made any incorrect assumptions, please correct me.

Hi Hippogriff,

Thank you for the swift reply. Yes we are about to take up this tenancy and due to our current situation we are trying to cover all bases and remove as many ties to us as posisble ( we are decent people but that oesnt count for much does it?). Please also see the second part o my reply. I have been getting replies from a blog post however reading the forums, your knowledge may be able to clarify further.

1) We have requested the agency to confrm.

2) Yes my grounds for removing this would be that we have provided a guarantor/deposit and signed an AST to which we have agreed all other terms. It is very tricky and is the first time I have ever come across something like this.

3) I assume, as it is in an apartment block that it would be gas. We are currently seeking clarification. I disagree with the "its ok because it is being settled by someone else". If other flats are sharing the costs or not, I would much rather be in control of my own bills and payments irregardless if it is an extra cost to us, I would much rather have the peace of mind. I also understand that an element of trust has to be instilled between tenant and landlord in this case.

Part  2 (current situation of my partner)

Lets call them 'A'. A's fixed term contract is ending on 30th November. There are 3 housemates, treated as 'the tenant', all signed the contract and are jointly and severally liable. A wants to leave the house and the contract. However, the estate agent has said that the tenancy will become periodic and A will still be liable for rent if she leaves. A periodic tenancy was not stipulated in the contract they signed last year. Notice was given via email that my partner would be leaving and not be renewing her contract on th 7th of October.

The agency are now playing hardball and off our lack of knowledge regarding the matter. We may have potentially found a replacement, however if this falls through, what are our options?

Following a check on shelter and talking to Citizens advice, we are aware of what the Periodic tenancy is and how it has come into effect. What we gather is that she will have to roll onto the periodic tenancy and serve 4 weeks (how often rent is paid) notice  in writing on the 1st of December. Citizens advice also stipulated that her notice means the the periodic tenancy should not even begin because it was enough notice.

However we were of the understanding that due to joint and liable severability, her serving her notice voids her being liable to pay for any rent post 30th November and voids the contract for all given that the same tenants will not be remaining in the property after this date.

What are our options on this just in-case? At the moment, if replacement falls though, we are planning to fight the 'one ends it for all' argument until the 30th.
Thanks

On 3) what I originally meant was - how are you being charged for gas and hot water? Surely the hot water is produced through the use of gas? And, yes, the bills being included for a set amount per month is relatively common. Some Landlords even provide Broadband and charge for that. Like you - all I would want to do is control all my own bills and choose my own suppliers but sometimes that is not possible. The bigger question is - does the Landlord need you as Tenants, or is it easy for the Landlord to find someone less 'picky' or more lackadaisical? Only you will know the answer to that from the property, the local market, the price etc..

In a tenancy where there is >1 Tenant then, yes, one serving notice will end the tenancy for all. However, the introduction of a Periodic Tenancy is confusing the matter as has been rightly said... the notice already served (intending to be for A solely, but actually for A, B and C sadly) is more than enough. The simplest fact of the matter is this, though... the Tenant is not required to give any notice whatsoever if they intend to leave the property either before or on the end of the fixed term.

You have been clear that's what this is - the fixed term ends on 30 Nov 2016. The Tenant (sadly, not just A) can leave the property at any time up to then and not be required to give any notice to the Landlord. Whether B and C actually leave as well would be academic, really... as the tenancy will be ended and it is the case that the Landlord can strike up a new tenancy with B and C, or A', B and C.

That's how I read it - but I don't get involved in complicated houseshares myself. Too many people wanting to move in and out with and without partners for me.

Quite possibly, transparency is just best in my opinion so we have requested that and we will see.  We have also asked how this clause affects us choosing a new supplier should we want to.

The thing is, it was a really good house share and they had been there for almost two years. Unfortunately estate agents feed off tenants lack of knowledge. They even want a sole checkout fee from her to check her room (£140!!!) . Our plan is to write a firm email to the agent stating the above and that she will be gone from the property, served notice and is not liable.!

Thank you for all your help on both topics.

Hi hippogriff, we need some more advice on 'A's' tenancy issue. The landlord has replied saying that because they all agreed in august to renew the contract, he is saying the Onus is on her to find the replacement. He will use her deposit to cover rent until a replacement has been found. He is also suggesting air bnb etc and circumventing the agency and their policies. I understand he is trying to be fair. But it all seems to be in favour of the remaining tenants.

How do we write an email to say that we are not paying rent and we have served notice (via email). Do we use the joint severability line? Baring in mind the landlord is a property lawyer. We are also calling Shelter asap. Just struggling to come up with the correct terms to say.