UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi all,

I am moving out in a week and the landlord has tried to rip us off on everything possible during our tenancy to no success. I have no information on who my deposit is protected by and on contacting the three deposit protection organisations it seems my deposit is not protected at all.

Now the question I have is can I still be charged for any damage? We have 2 cats who have scratched at the edge of the carpet in the corner of the landing and the landlord wants us to pay completely for a new carpet. Is that pretty much null & void as no deposit protection or not?

Also, I am planning on sending a letter once we move out (next week) stating that I intend to go to court unless a settlement can be agreed - should I accept it if I am offered the full deposit back or should I demand a full deposit and then some etc?

Reading through this site just made me have 1 more question - our landlord owns a building which houses us, 2 businesses and there own business in it - does this change anything?

Sorry for posting again lol! Landlord came in to do a pre final inventory check and is asking us to sign things to say we are happy for it to come out of the deposit. We haven't yet obviously but I'm just wondering, if we do does that mean we have to accept it coming out of our deposit even if the deposit wasn't protected?

Quote from: Wipendclean on June 22, 2016, 01:57:35 PM
Hi all,

I am moving out in a week and the landlord has tried to rip us off on everything possible during our tenancy to no success. I have no information on who my deposit is protected by and on contacting the three deposit protection organisations it seems my deposit is not protected at all.

Now the question I have is can I still be charged for any damage? We have 2 cats who have scratched at the edge of the carpet in the corner of the landing and the landlord wants us to pay completely for a new carpet. Is that pretty much null & void as no deposit protection or not?

Also, I am planning on sending a letter once we move out (next week) stating that I intend to go to court unless a settlement can be agreed - should I accept it if I am offered the full deposit back or should I demand a full deposit and then some etc?

Legally speaking... the deposit must be returned and the Landlord is liable for a penalty between 1x and 3x the deposit. If it goes to Court, you would win that case, it is black and white.

Morally speaking... you may think the Landlord has tried to rip you off, and that's not good, but you admit they've had no success. You also seem to be admitting that damage has been caused... a person with a good moral compass might think it's correct to pay for the damage that has been caused. A complete carpet replacement at list price ain't the way to go about it, though... the carpet is at least some years old, and things have a useful lifetime and the depreciate over that lifetime. So a proportion of the cost would be due the Landlord. That would be fair, and right. It does not excuse the Landlord for not protecting the deposit - there's no excuse - but I always question whether two wrongs make a right, or - indeed - two lefts (they don't, but, somewhat perversely, three lefts do make a right - yet three wrongs don't).

At the end of a tenancy, ideally, neither party should 'lose out' financially... it's a business arrangement. Damage should be paid for and no-one should take advantage of the other party. Revenge, vendettas, putting one over on the other... pah, who's got time for that... let's all just get on with our lives.

Thanks for your reply. I suggested to the landlord that as the carpet was not new I would be willing to split the cost of replacing but not happy to pay in full which they refute and insist it's on me to pay for. I have also said that I am happy to pay for another bit of damage as that was us hands down, it's the carpet that's triggered me to look at the situation.

If I do decide to take it further at 1x deposit (£1042.50) would this be the initial deposit minus deductions plus a full deposit OR the initial deposit in full plus another deposit?

The latter.

You sue for 3x.

Looking at other posts on carpet it seems fair that I offer a percentage on how old the carpet is - if they doesn't know when the carpet was fitted which wouldn't be a surprise what then? If they dont accept a percentage then I suppose I should ask for the details of the deposit protection scheme and that may move things along with the LL in my favour. Failing that I will take the route I believe. Is the sue route a very long drawn out process?

It's not as easy a route as you might hope... but the fact is - you are assured the win.

Start by asking for the Deposit Protection Scheme's details where your deposit is protected, as you say. That should bring the matter out into the open. I presume, obviously, that you were never served the Prescribed Information at the time the deposit 'was' protected. That is a failing as well. A carpet can be expected to have a lifetime of 10 years... if it's older than that, well... guess what? It's supposed to be worth nothing at all - which seems a little unfair in the eyes of most people.

Please do ensure you have a standard AST agreement before you start this - I note your comments about the setup.

1) Double-check your agreement and be satisfied that your deposit should have been protected.
2) Double-check what you may have received / did not receive at the start of the tenancy.
3) Double-check that your deposit isn't with the Deposit Protection Schemes (already done, I get that).
4) Enquire with your Landlord as to which Scheme your deposit is with.
5) Expect a reply that confirms it hasn't been protected, hopefully with the admission it should have been.
6) Send a Letter Before Action, stating on what terms you think this should be resolved... maybe your deposit back plus 1x as a settlement offer?
7) Let the Landlord huff-and-puff.
8 ) Come back with new information...

👍 I will let you know what happens next

Sorry just one other bit - I have agreed some damage and signed an invoice with her for £100 which I'm happy with - if this does end up at court does that still stand or does it not count anymore? Bit confused.

The deposit is only a mechanism for simplifying compensation due to the Landlord at the end of a tenancy in case of damage. If a deposit didn't exist at all, the Landlord could still agree a damage figure with an outgoing Tenant or issue a claim through Court themselves. What you are doing by agreeing the £100 is just short-circuiting all that. The claim for non-protection is then entirely unrelated.

If your deposit was £1,000 and you've agreed the Landlord can retain £100 for damage you caused, then the Landlord will return £900. You can then make a claim for non-protection of the deposit, which will result in either £1,000, £2,000 or £3,000 being paid to you... or a settlement figure.

So generally I should agree to the damages that I think are fair first and then follow this up once I have the deposit returned? Or will me agreeing a deposit return amount nullify the claim afterwards?

You're conflating two things that should not be linked.

👍

We have minor damage to a door that the paint has peeled off from possibly from cars scratching. Had a painter look at it and he is emailing me to say that it wasn't painted properly in the first place so we shouldn't have to pay to have it done now - landlord reckons it has to be just like when we moved in - what do you reckon?

Damage is damage I'm afraid. The Painter is offering a subjective, if expert, opinion... but it's opinion about painting, not Landlord and Tenant law.

Cool no probs thanks 👍

Ok so I have asked 3 times for the name of the company protecting our deposit and policy number via email as we are disputing the amount that should come out of our deposit - the landlord hasn't not provided this yet (I have it in writing from the 3 companies that they do not protect the deposit). The landlord instead keeps trying to suggest that everything should come out of the deposit and that it will cost more than the deposit to sort - it won't by the way. I'm just wanting to check that if it does somehow the landlord can't ask for more than the deposit to cover it?

Should I tell her now I know it's not protected and suggest a fair settlement figure or leave that till everything is exhausted? Or not tell her and just send a letter regarding sueing?

Just to check - there are only 3 companies that protect the deposit right?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/tenancy_deposits/tenancy_deposit_protection_schemes/deposit_protection_and_tenancy_deposit_schemes

Of course the Landlord can ask for more than the deposit to rectify any damage caused. The deposit is only a convenient mechanism to facilitate quick resolution to issues. If a Tenant's deposit was £500 but the damage caused amounted to £2,000 the Tenant doesn't get a free pass for the £1,500. It would be resolved through agreement or the Court.

👍. Regarding the carpet in dispute the landlord won't provide an invoice or anything showing when the carpet was fitted to show age and cost when purchased. Do they have to provide that or not to settle a dispute?

The Landlord is obviously trying to pull the wool over your eyes, right? You get that, don't you? They think they can get you to pay for a whole new replacement carpet. That's not possible... unless you agree. Expecting them to play things by the book now seems, to me, a little... hopeful?

You need to escalate this situation - get yourself a LBA written and off you go... stop messing around. Follow the advice on Shelter's website if that helps you.

Perfect, thanks for your help and I'll keep this page updated.

Provided your landlord has not protected the deposit (and not served prescribed information), it's safe to assume they MIGHT have missed / neglected other parts of their responsibilities:

Check the following:

1. Has your landlord performed annual gas safety checks ? Do you have a copy of the gas safety certificate ? Check it's date.

The certificate is only valid for 12 months, after the engineer performed the audit. It can only be conducted by a Gas Safe registered engineer, who's licence card code has to be on the report. You can check if you were serviced by a Gas Safe registered engineer in this link - Find an engineer
If it's past that, then by definition of the law, your landlord has failed their duty to provide you with a hazard free property.  Even though it might be a technicality, hazards are hazards and any injury you sustain as a result would make your landlord liable for a criminal offence.

2. Do you have a copy of the EPC ? Your landlord is required to provide one when you enter in occupation.

If you see flaws or failures on the above, you can use them as additional leverage for your case. Seeing as you're likely going to court about the deposit, you can supply these additional facts as proof that the landlord has completely neglected their responsibilities and in term tried to tip the scales for bigger financial gain.

The judge will decide on how much compensation you will receive (1x to 3x the deposit amount + the original deposit), so you want to lay out all the dirty rags you can about the landlord as to convince them of a larger penalty.

On the other hand, the landlord can also claim for each damage reflected in the comparison between both inventory reports. The two claims are separate and don't cancel each other out.

Here is some reading for you, if you need it:

Tenancy deposit protection schemes (TDP)
Deposit deductions and disputes

Thanks Audrey that's a big hep, will be checking it shortly! A question on the inventory - we are going through it tomorrow with the landlord who I am presuming is going to carry out the inventory check on her own(with us) - can this happen or should there be an independent person there to do this?

I have found a gas safety certificate but it's not dated - we haven't had anyone in to do anything in the 2.5 years we have been here - shall I ask her for the most recent one as there isn't one in the flat anywhere? Shouldn't these be left out for us to see each time?

Ok so did the final inspection but she didn't show - sent an estate agent friend round who tried to make out she didn't have to protect the deposit so I laid it all out and they got worried. Not sorted yet though. Just to keep you updated on the carpet - she bought it for cash and doesn't have a receipt or invoice etc so I said I'm not willing to pay anything towards it in that case as I have no idea how much it cost or when it was bought - is that ok?

Please elaborate on how the 'Agent' tried to persuade you the deposit didn't require protecting...

He just told me that it wasn't something that was a requirement - when I told him it was he backed down. Got an offer of £250 back within half hour I turned down so still waiting to hear. They did get the initial deposit wrong by £300 as well so that has now been sorted. Will keep you posted

So, how did things end? Hope OP has a new landlord and a protected deposit now.