UK Landlord Forum / Life

Good afternoon boys, girls and those not sure. I've registered here to seek a bit of advice on my current situation, which is a first for me (the situation, not seeking advice!). Basically, due to unfortunate personal circumstances my landlady is putting our house up for sale.

Currently the property (a three-storey, four-bedroom town house) is occupied by four individuals, each with a separate tenancy (bog-standard assured shorthold tenancy agreements). We've been advised of the intention to sell the property but not been served notice to vacate; indeed, our landlady seems keen for us to stay as long as possible, unsurprisingly as that would be a lot of lost revenue and we've all been here for about five years, so there is a measure of stability as things currently stand.

She has asked us (not unreasonably) to tidy the house right up for an estate agent to come and photograph the place, and in the meantime she is arranging for the property to be painted where it needs it, have the carpets and soft furnishings cleaned and make it look generally like a nice place to live. This however has already resulted in her coming over unannounced on three separate occasions, during the day when she is presumably expecting nobody to be home. Two of the visits involved showing an estate agent and a builder around the house, including our bedrooms.

Unofficially (I say this because we have not had anything specific in writing), she believes that the current timescale will be for the house to enter the market at the end of October. She keeps remarking that it's possible that it will be purchased as an investment, obviously intimating that we may not need to look for somewhere else to live, but having not been in this situation before I don't really know what to expect. For myself the situation is also complicated by the fact that I am between jobs (and I literally mean that - I was made redundant due to difficulties in the civil engineering industry and have been working in software development since, but only ever on fixed-term contracts each time), and whilst I've had several interviews have not had a concrete offer as of yet.

So, what I would like to know is:-

- Should we expect our arrangement with our landlady to be more formal now? Previously we've never had a problem with her, she's fixed anything that needed doing in a timely manner and we rarely saw her apart from our annual inspection, but I and my housemates are uncomfortable with her turning up whenever she feels like it all of a sudden. Whilst we're loath to rock the boat, we do feel that we've been excellent tenants over the last few years and never caused her any stress or grief, so should we not expect some respect in return?

- How likely is the property to be sold as a going concern? Obviously it was intended as a family home but it's currently laid out as a shared house - the living room is a bedroom, the dining area serves as a general living area, the fourth bedroom is a study, etc. I don't know if this would influence buyers either way? If it is sold as an investment, how likely is it that we would be kept on as tenants? Are there any hurdles to that process?

- How much notice is she required to give us? I've read conflicting advice on this topic; our contracts would appear to be subject to a two-month notice period during the initial fixed-term section, but we are all now on one-month rolling contracts. Whilst I appreciate that she is keen for us to stay as long as possible (and that would be potentially helpful for me as things currently stand), neither I nor any of my housemates relish the possibility of being given thirty days to find and move into a new home, given that the rental market for our area is highly competitive. We're currently discussing our plans (one is planning to rent a house with his girlfriend for example) and whether we'd like to continue sharing with each other or go our separate ways, but regardless of that I think we all need some certainty on this one, perhaps even a date by when the house should be empty by regardless of when it is sold. Is that unreasonable?

- Is my lack of employment going to hamper me in finding a new residence if I have to relocate before finding a new job? Whilst I'm receiving housing and job seeker's allowance currently I was previously employed continuously for over ten years and have only been officially unemployed for 14 months of the last two years, and have good letters of recommendation from all three of my landlords prior to this one (and I can't see why she would be any different). My ability to pay my rent is not in question as I am a) not a numbskull, and b) not a numbskull. If this is a barrier, would the situation be different based on whether I look to rent alone (in a shared house - I can't afford my own place around here) or whether I go in as a joint tenant with my current housemates?


Thank you for reading this, any advice and experiences (from both tenants and landlords!) would be greatly appreciated.

There is always a lot of uncertainty in this sort of situation and it cannot be totally avoided.  As a landlady myself, I once sold a property as a  "going concern", with a sitting tenant.  It was not a problem, and there was no legal impediment.  I also once sold a different property TO its sitting tenant because once I had made it clear I wanted to sell he immediately phoned me with a good offer.    Again, there was no legal impediment.  So, it is perfectly possible, although by no means guaranteed, that you will be able to stay put.

Keep all of your options open for as long as possible.  Your landlady must realise that as she has introduced some uncertainty with the idea of the sale then she may lose some tenants, because all of us want some security regarding where we live.  In your shoes I think I would begin casting around and checking out the market for other places to rent, just in case. 

I *think* that both you and your landlady may only need to give each other a month's   notice to terminate a periodic tenancy such as you are all on.  Of course she might wish you to stay.  Your rent payments are very likely helping to pay any charges she has against the property, such as the mortgage, or improvement loans etc.  She won't want to lose you until she has to.  Been there myself too.   

Hello lawynd,

You have some good advice from Topseyt.  My take on your questions are:

- Look at the blogs on Quiet Enjoyment.  Your landlady can not come and go as she pleases.  Even in the unusual time of selling the house.  She is not offering you any kind of discount to accept infringements on your privacy, so if you are uncomfortable, then politely enforce your rights.  You will be acting reasonably, if she continues to violate your privacy, to change the locks and not provide copy keys until you leave.

- I think it is reasonably likely to be sold as a going concern.  A four bedroom house is not for first time buyers.  And buying a property currently tenanted with an owner-occupier mortgage is not the kind of thing banks are falling over themselves to accommodate in these post credit crunch times.  This might also mean it is on the market for a long time.  You might find this very unsettling.

- Assuming you're on AST, you're not on one-month rolling contracts.  You're on a contract which exists in perpetuity until you issue notice (one month) or the landlord issues notice (two months) to leave.  Look at the blogs about Section 21 for more notes around the technicalities of these notices.  Sorry if thsi sounds a bit Budda: You want others to give you certainty over dates.  They don't know.  If they give you certainty it will suit them, not you.  Create your own certainty by either deciding to leave under your own timetable or stay.

- I'm very sorry to say that if you're not in current paid employment it is going to act as a barrier.  There are some in the rental market who just say "no people on benefits" and won't listen.  You need to find the people who will listen.

Best wishes and please let us know how you get on.

Thank you very much for the information and advice Topseyt and Jeremy, greatly appreciated. A quick roundup of what's new:

- Our landlady seems to think that vague emails are a substitute to actually sitting down with us all and explaining our plans.

- She believes that she only has to give us a month's notice. We have checked with an estate agent and a solicitor and have been informed that this is not the case, and it is two months. She doesn't believe us.

- She has at least started to inform us of when she will be coming around. I however wasn't impressed to come back on Thursday and find things previously on the kitchen worktop unceremoniously slung into cupboards, and our mug tree and a pot which contained utensils have been thrown away. Whilst they did belong to her, that seems rather out of order.

- Two of my housemates have served notice, and she intends to rent the rooms on a short-term basis to keep the money coming in. For me this is good, as it does look likely that at the very least I'll be able to stay here until 2013; more time to get my ducks in a row.

Hello lawynd

Thanks for the extra info.  Just one observation.  If you're on an AST (most likely) then two months is the minimum notice the landlord can issue.  Whether she beleives you or not is immaterial.  If she fails to give you enough notice, you do not have to leave.  And if it is bought by owner-occupiers with a normal residental mortgage, then finding out there's a tenant who won't leave before completion date is often a deal-killer.  So her ignorance could be to your advantage, depending upon how much you wish to take advantage.