UK Landlord Forum / Life

New member here so apologies if I accidentally break any forum rules.

I live in one of the rented room (Room A) of a multibedroom bedroom property in london. I left my bike parked in backyard of the property which can only be accessed via another room (Room B).

I knew the tenaants of Room B who allowed me to access the backyard through their room. About a week ago the tenants left but I left my bike in the backyard and I  lasted checked my bike to be there on Wednesday 3rd July.

Today I see my bike gone and I called the agency manager who said they cleared out the left over items from the other tenants. I spoke with the tenants today and they did mention to the agency while leaving that the bike (over the phone). I have been living in this propery for 3 years and have always left my bike in the backyard.

The agency is saying that the bike MAY have been disposed off or sold for scrap but they will check and get back to me but I am not expecting anything. I know its not their responsibility but they should have asked the other tenants living in this property before removing the bike. The bike wheel was locked to itself but not to any infrastructure.

Absolutely gutted.

If sold for scrap then you - surely - have some money coming your way... happy days!

update: I spoke to them today and they have sold it for scrap as they other tenants didn't clear all their dues..... i'm just baffled basically.

okay so I looked through the contract which says:

The Landlord will remove and dispose any items of property or belongings left in the Room at the end of the Term. The Tenant will be responsible for meeting all resonable removal and disposal charges if items of property and belongings are left in the Room at the end of the Term.

However the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 says the tenancy agreement must not fall foul of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999. It also says
any possessions left at the property still belong to the tenant and are protected by the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977. There is a legal duty on the landlord to take reasonable care of the goods until they are either returned to their owner or disposed of legitimately. If a landlord sells or disposes of the goods without taking the correct steps then the tenant could advance a civil claim against the landlord.

Not sure if should seek legal advise. Any advice would be appreciated.

Don't worry about the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977.  The bike wasn't left in the room, so that clause simply doesn't apply.

Write to the managing director or senior partner of the lettings agency.  Ask him or her to replace your bike.  Provide the make and model.

Ok so here's what I wrote to them:

At Property X my bike parked in backyard was removed and taken by Agency contractors between 4th-5th July.



6th July: I reported it to manager X (yourself).



7th July: I have been told by yourself the bike has been sold to recover costs from previous tenants.



Please provide a full report of the procedure followed by Agency to process this. When was the bike collected, when was it sold off, what did Agency do determine which tenant in the property was the owner etc.



Please provide name of redress scheme for Agency.

Here is the response I got:

Following from our phone call over the weekend, I had expressed to yourself that I am not able to share the information relating to you ex flat mate renting room X. This is due to Personal information and we have to be in compliance with the GDPR laws.


I can however answer one question of yours where you have ask If we had determined the belongings of which tenant from the house hold.

If a person had returned the keys and have exited their contract, we have the rights to enter that individuals room and dispose of any items left behind in order to prepare the room for the new tenant. If items where left in the communal areas such as Lobby, Living room, Kitchen, Bathroom or any place that is not exclusive to one, in this case we cannot determine which tenant it belongs to so therefore we cannot remove it.

If the back yard was for communal use,then they seem to be admitting that they are in the wrong to have removed it.Have you requested financial recompense? Are you having to pay out for public transport to get to work now?

they are saying the backyard forms part of the other room for which tenants left as it can only be accessed via the room

Here is my email response:
Thank you for your email however I'm only asking for information regarding my bike and not the tenant.

As for your response to my question my bike was not in any of the rooms but in the backyard.

Hence I would like to request the following information about my bike:
- when was my bike taken from the backyard?
- where is the bike now?
- when can I have my bike back?

Again I am requesting information for a property that I own that was left outside in the backyard and not in any of the rooms. Please can I kindly request this information ASAP.

Here is the letting agent manager's response:


Just to make it clear and I hope you can understand the situation better,
The back garden in your property is exclusive to the room 1 downstairs, therefore making it private and sole use for that room only.
If the tenant had allowed you to have access to his garden, then it is yours and the tenants agreement. On our agreement Room 1 has sole access and paying for this facility for having a private garden for his room and the garden is not for shared space neither it is a communal area.

Unfortunately I cannot comment other matters that you have addressed, again because of information that does not relate to you.

If you wish to arrange a meeting in person at my office, please feel free to let me know and I can pencil you in.

Quote from: heavykarma on July 09, 2019, 08:16:03 AM
If the back yard was for communal use,then they seem to be admitting that they are in the wrong to have removed it.Have you requested financial recompense? Are you having to pay out for public transport to get to work now?

I am not having to pay for public transport as I have a travel pass but places where I would normally would have used by bike e.g. gym I now need to walk or take the tube.

They are not admitting to anything as you see in the email. Pathetic really.

any suggestions or advice. I haven't emailed for compensation or anything since their last response. Is there any point in seeking legal advice about this. Does it seem plausible that I could extract anything out of this situation.

Also has anyone used the "rogue-landlord-checker"? I have complained about my letting agents in there but lets see if anything happens. Is it worthwile making a police report?

Yes, it seems plausible that you could extract something from this.  Repeat your request for the name and address of their redress scheme.  Copy in the managing director or senior partner of the agency.

I can have some sympathy with the other side if this was something that the previous tenant agreed with you.If you knew this was a private garden,they could reasonably argue that you left the bike there at your own risk.Personally,I would have placed a notice on said bike,"Will the owner of this bike please move it within x days,otherwise it will be disposed of".You may have to just let this drop.

The Agency obviously has the ability to email their Tenants, as evidenced. It would not be a very hard thing to do to email all other Tenants and ask about the bike, then just wait for a day or two. This is a cock-up that people are trying to justify as reasonable action after the event, probably due to acting in the moment, pressures of time. It's not a hard thing to do to just check vs. assume. What it amounts to is people not having even basic levels of respect for others... likely because Tenants in the past have done all sorts, to be fair, so it colours things... "why bother asking, no-one will respond"... "why bother checking, it's obviously garbage left behind"... "why show any interest in anything, no-one else does".

All,

thank you for your reply. Its  good hearing the responses.  The irony is that I am living in the same property! I was just out for work and i come back to see this! Ridiculous. I will keep trying via email. Any more views is always welcome. Yes they have multiple prosecutions when I checked with the rouge letting agents checker.

I mean even if the say the backyard is private property shouldn't Torts apply? So they would have asked the tenant of the room whose bike has also been taken. Yes they took two bikes (mine and the tenats who left the room and both bikes where left in the backyard. He left it temporarily and was goign to collect it after a week and the bike didn't fit in the mini van). So had they asked him he would have said who the bikes belong to. However the contract states that anything left behind will be removed but I find this clause to be unfair.

Looking at it from the landlord's point of view, once the tenant has moved out of Room B, he's going to want to get a new tenant in there as soon as possible, and that's not going to be easy if the room and adjacent yard are cluttered up with stuff the previous tenant has left behind. The chances are they just used a third party contractor to clear and clean the room, and unless it was Bagpuss & Co, they're not going to worry too much about the finer points of who owns what.

okay seems just gonna have to let this slide then.. such a shame really.

I wrote for the third time and got the same response. I got their redress scheme and managers details. They are stating the backyard is private access for the other room, as the tenats moved they cleared out the items. There are other rubbish items in the backward like broken stools, small bbq but they only took the two bikes one which belonged to the tenants of the room in question and other was mine. They even left the bike stand, bike cover and latch, thus so much for clearing up.

I understand this but what I don't understand is how by law they can just take property that belonged to us and sell it. Torts clearly says that landlords cannot dispose tenants goods without trying to contact them first. If they are stating the backyard falls under the room then Torts should cover this?

I think that they have three legal holes in what they're saying.

1) They're trying to say that their contract that specifically talks about items left in a room, means they're entitled to take something left in a garden.  That's not what the contract says.
2) They're trying to say that the contract between them and the former tenants, means they're entitled to take your bike.  But you didn't sign the contract that was breached --- you're "not a party" --- so they've got no redress against you.
3) Even if it wasn't for (1) and (2) they still can't steal the tenant's belongings and sell them, irrespective of what their tenancy agreement says.  Whether or not it's a tort, strictly speaking, that's just an outrageous clause to write into a tenancy.  Preposterous.  It won't stand up in Court.

Yeah. Agreed. Anyone know a good (and possibly) cheap solicitor to consult? I have no experience on the legal side of things. Can you also claim for solicitor fees?

A solicitor would cost more than the value of most bikes, and you can't normally claim their costs in a small claims court.

A typical letter from a solicitor can cost around £200-£300,plus the initial consultation fee.They have been high-handed,but you are wasting your time.Let it go.

Its not about the money trust me......if they have done something against the law then I don't think I should just let it go ...but as you say question is ...is it worthwhile. Does anyone have any expereince with small claims procedure..?

Quote from: sadat on July 14, 2019, 05:38:09 PM...is it worthwhile. Does anyone have any expereince with small claims procedure..?

Yes.

Is it worthwhile?  Only if the (value of the time and stress you'll put in + opportunity cost of a day in court) < value of the bike.  So, unlikely.

update: so after more email exchanges they agents have stated they haven't taken my bike although over the phone the manager said they had collected and sold the bike. They have admitted to taking other bikes but not the bike I have described. Within the space of two days my bike went missing and only major event was the agency contractors coming to service the room and they collected some other bikes from the backyard connecting to the room but not my bike ande yet my bike is now missing. Now to be fair I have no evidence/ camera footage of them taking the bike but I have parked the bike in the backyard for over 2 years and nothing happened.

My flatmate whos window overlooks the backyard has seen the bike parked on 3rd July evening and subsequently gone 6th July morning. But this hardly makes the case that the letting agents took the bike. Pretty much a lost cause at this point. However i was thinking even if I assume someone else magically came into the backyard with the front room being locked, this counts as theft from the property so maybe house insurance could help? Not sure how this works with tenants/landlord situation.
PS:  apologies for dragging this on...!! 

Contents insurance may cover bicycles, but usually only if they were chained up.

Quote from: sadat on July 30, 2019, 09:34:39 PM...but I have parked the bike in the backyard for over 2 years and nothing happened.

To be fair, most people aren't burgled, often for years and years, until they are.

Certainly, every person out there isn't murdered... until the day they are.

The bike could've been in the backyard for 22 years, 2 years or 2 minutes... if someone took property that isn't there's... there is a word for that. However, it seems very grey and murky now... an admission, a claim it was "allowed", a step back... you're onto a hiding to nothing right about now I'm afraid. Unless the Agent admitted it, or admitted it was done by someone else but under their direction, you've not really got a viable avenue to follow. You're just chasing your own tail.

The good thing about a bike... the really good thing... is that it can be replaced (in exchange for money)... unlike a leg, or a life or something much more important - health.

Maybe a last gambit with the Agency... "look, we both know the bike has been taken under your direction, and it appears as though it's been sold, no matter what you say, I would like nothing more than to draw a line under this, rather than take further [unspecified] action on this matter... if we both shoulder the burden so I can get a new bike, would you consider a gesture of goodwill [that not being the price of a new bike] to enable me to do that?"

If you get somewhere, good.
If you get nowhere, accept.

Then we can all move on. I think we need to draw this to a close because it's certainly giving me sleepless nights... I can't imagine what effect it's having on you.

thank you all for the support and kind words.  I tried the approach ^^^ but in the end they didn't budge at all...however as suggested I have accepted this now and am over it... at least till they do something stupid again!!