UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi, i recently moved into a property and was not given the keys fir 12 days after signing my contract, due to no fault of my own. I am now being charged rent 10 days in advance. My question is wether that is allowed as i had not received the keys or moved in until a later date?

Why didn't you collect the keys?

Quote from: Mjones on June 04, 2019, 05:34:38 PM...due to no fault of my own.

Whose fault was it? If you weren't given the keys on time by the Landlord / Agent, and therefore you could not take possession, then you would have a strong position... but you do not make this part clear. It is often the case (certainly with my own tenancies) that the contact (AST) is signed on the day of the Check-In, and dated as tenancy starting on that same day, which is the day rent is charged from. Anything else, at least in my mind, would make things unnecessarily complicated. So you signed the contract, but were not given the keys... but where does the fault lie?

Now, if you just chose to not move in until a later date (and had arranged key collection for that day) you're onto a hiding to nothing.

Please elaborate...

Thanks fir the replies. It was due to my old agents not sorting the references out (WH Brown). The current land lord would not hand over the keys until the references came through. In the end my old land lord gave the reference direct as WH Brown had still done nothing. The land lord was asked if the agents could hand over the keys but obviously wouldn't until the references came through, but has had rent for the ten days in which this happened.

Your current landlord shouldn't have accepted your money or started the tenancy until the keys were available for collection.  In the first instance, complain to your current lettings agency ---- email a complaint to the managing director or senior partner, as applicable.

I think we'll all probably agree a few truths, then maybe we can see where we go...

The first is that the tenancy start and keys handover would generally happen at the same time - otherwise, it's not a tenancy start, as you don't have possession. So, if you don't have possession you can't really be charged rent (unless by some weird agreement on your behalf). In this case, it might sound like the tenancy start date was aggressive in its nature and there (proven) wasn't enough time (understand we're talking about an Agent here) to get the associated admin. done. In that case I would probably move onto another Tenant (if I'm being honest) as you're already coming across to me as someone who is unreliable... if references don't come back in a timely manner I expect the Tenant to start chasing - after all, it's in their own interests. Sitting back and just waiting for things to happen is what too many people think is acceptable.

The second is that we would probably all agree it would be a silly Landlord who would say - "ah, I don't really care about these references, I'm sure it'll be fine" - and just let you have the keys regardless. What you can be safe in the knowledge of is that your Landlord sounds like they play with a straight bat, follow the established process, etc.. A good thing.

The third is that you claim the delay was no fault of your own - but, actually, it could be said to be the case - just because a third party didn't come through with your references, that's not the current Landlord's fault - or problem - and because your side (for it is "your side" when you think about it) cannot get its act together. So, if it wasn't the current Landlord's fault (which we've ascertained) then why should they be financially punished for that? They have a property standing empty - and they're likely liable for running costs of that property, as well as loss of income (the aforementioned rent)... so... if it's not the current Landlord's fault, whose is it?

I suggest it's your fault... the incoming Tenant. Because it's your responsibility to supply the references (not yourself, of course, but it's your responsibility to have them supplied). I don't think it's fair to charge rent to someone when they don't have possession, but my assumption is that the tenancy agreement you have is dated from X, and not Y? What you have been denied is access... not good, but what was the current Landlord expected to do?

1) Give you access without referencing (an unwise Landlord might do this)?
2) Take the financial hit of delaying the tenancy (no fault of the Landlord)?
3) Make you suffer the consequences of you not getting your ducks lined-up?

It's still a sticky situation, though... because although 3 sounds the most reasonable path for the current Landlord to take (to me) I don't think it's fair to charge for rent when there's no possession. 2 smells really bad and I would rather dump you as incoming Tenant... I'd probably have another viewing lined-up ready to go, start the ball rolling, and you realise that would leave you in a worse situation, of course, without a home to go to... and even if you think paying 10 days is bad (and I'm not disagreeing) at least perspective may help.

I'd think a quid pro quo solution - being pragmatic - could be potentially achievable... maybe one where rent and running costs for the void period where you were fannying-around (or doing nothing to help yourself, by the sounds of it?) are somehow split between two parties, amicably?

Remember... an ex-Landlord (or Agent, I presume) is under no obligation to provide a reference at all, never mind in a timely manner... so whatever was provided, they helped you.

Remember... an incoming Landlord is under no obligation to let a property to you if you don't pass checks and obtain suitable references... simple fact of life.

All-in-all, it sounds like it worked-out in the end and you're just smarting about this rent. Fair enough... if you get anywhere you'll feel good about it, if you don't you'll forget about it (I assure you).

Actually myself, letting agents, referencing agency and landlord chased them up i was not fannying around as you put it. And how you ascertain i am unreliable from my question is baffling?

I totally agree that the landlord shouldn't and needed not hand over the keys without the references, but also should presumably not be able to charge me rent as it is his choice at the end of the day?

As for his costs, I'm pretty sure that is why landlords have insurance is it not?

Of course not, don't be utterly naïve. Your ineptitude at being able to provide your own references has the potential to cost someone else money and your position is - well, they have Insurance, right? I would conclude, as I have already, that you're one of these relaxed numptie types who lets everything happen around them, and expects others to cushion them from their own general lack of interest in progressing in a timely manner. Hopefully you get the result you want, seems to be the way of the world that folks don't shoulder anything these days. I love how you started this with "through no fault of my own".

I must say sir stellar job at giving advice and not at all sounding like an argumentative no it all 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻.
Oh sorry ill add now, not that seems important coz ya know you have made your totally unfounded assumption of my character, that during those ten days i have records of 17 emails and phone calls from my self ti WH Brown and 6 emails from the referencing agency..., sorry ill repeat that... REFERENCING AGENCY (i.e. the people who i had paid to do the references) concerning them not being able to get any where with Browns, i then took upon my self to contact my landlord who was in Dubai at the time and explain the situation.
But you know you obviously know it all......
oh and I actually offered to pay an extra month upfront to prove i was able to pay for the property and give the landlord at little extra security if was willing to hand over the keys.
But I am a relaxed numpty of a head chef of a busy restaurant during a menu change and managed to chase around trying to sort it out.
So you arrogant prick I find your assumptions to be offensive.
Good day and thanks for nothing.

During a menu change... hahahaha. Typical Chef... delusions of grandeur, it's just a job. Just face it - you cocked-up. You control your own destiny, but expect others to cover you.

What he said.

Actually,while you're here,can I just ask what the veggie options are? I don't know if you seek feedback,but I am so sick of being offered bloody butternut risotto.I make a very good risotto myself,so fancy something a bit different when eating out.Also,putting goat cheese tart with salad on the summer menu,as a main,is a cop-out.Two bites of finger food does not soak up the alcohol.

The menu of the busy restaurant in question... https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/menu/vegetarian.html ...is published on the Internet. It's not a massive change he was talking about, hence my comment... it's not gonna distract him that much from his life.

So many imaginative things you can do with sweetcorn,I have obviously been missing out.

Right you utter cunt! I work 16 hour days and have been a chef for 17 years and take pride in what i do. I came to this fucking shit heap of a web forum for advice instead i get a disrespectful dick head who think ls he has a clue on what i do as a profession? So Hippogriff what do you do that deserves any respect? Go eat a bag of dicks!

Couldn't agree more risotto is dull. I infact make my own Tempeh which is served with a korean bulgi sauce in house made bao buns. But hey the other 6 vegan dishes might be more up your street.

You say you work 16 hour days like it's some kind of badge of honour. It isn't. It means you're being exploited... that's probably because you're not very bright and get yourself into trouble due to having a very short fuse.

What I do is called being a Landlord... I would hope to sniff you out at the viewing as being one of those types... the ones that you tell a white lie to - "I'm sorry, someone else offered before you"... you would probably kick-off and threaten to stab me or something. Calm down, you're not Gordon Ramsay. Are you? I mean, I know he's had a tough time n'all...

You need to chill... you've already decided the world is against you... but the truth is I couldn't care.

Haha the world isn't against me at all, i get paid a bloody good salary for doing something i love. I wonder how many little white lies you've told your tenants and the people on here?
I could surmise you to be a money hungry landlord who preys on people and rips them off like all landlords...... which obviously isn't true, but you claim to know what a head chef does?
I came here to ask a simple question and was met with someone deciding i was a "numpty" and now "not very bright", and then you disrespected my profession. Why do you think, as you are obviously so bright, i might be a little pissed?

You're "pissed" because you've realised what you'd claimed was no fault of your own was actually all down to you. You're "pissed" because you think other people should lose money, or claim on their Insurance, because you're inept. You're "pissed" because you work 16 hour days and have done for 17 years and you must pretend you're somehow proud of this. Unlike you, who has fallen foul of caring (way too much I might add) about what a stranger thinks, I don't care what you think about me, or what I do, not even whether you're "pissed" or incredibly copacetic... but if I had to hazard a guess I'd suggest dissatisfaction with life (at least 17 years in work and renting?). Soon you'll be gone... somewhere else, to be angry at the world. You may be back one or two more times... but you're probably getting close to your personal end now. You'll not like being told that... you may react. Try not to. Control yourself!

Just because you think you've been ripped-off by a Landlord you shouldn't think all Landlords are like that. Maybe you were just an easy, naïve, tempting target?

You are funny. My landlord is really nice and we sorted it. Do have a nice life and ill carry on doing the same. X

All sorted, to your benefit, via the Landlord's Insurance, I'm 100% sure. The majority of us are really nice.

That food sounds great,making your own Tempeh,never heard of anyone doing that.I think your line of work  illustrates the flaw in your argument.I know how frustrating and costly it is when people book tables and fail to show.I understand that legally you are entitled to charge,and I have heard of people doing this successfully.If someone booked a table with you (maybe you don't have many covers?) and failed to show up you would be justifiably angry.If they later contacted wanting to book again,would you be interested in their excuse-the car wouldn't start,the baby sitter failed to show ? Of course not,not your problem,so why should your business be expected to take the hit? You would expect them to recompense you before doing business with them again.The landlord is not responsible for the problems you had at your end.He has to make money from his business,just like you.

Where the hell is that Upvote Button I've wanted for such a long time?