UK Landlord Forum / Life

My daughter has just moved out of a house she has rented for 3 years. The house was flooded twice during that time and the Landlady wants to charge her £90.00 to clean the cooker, she says it was new when she moved in. £30.00 to mow the lawn, £40.00 for 2hrs cleaning. £27.00 because the wheels on the weelie bin are broke, despite it having to be dragged down some steps and accross some grass to the road. £25.00 for a damaged blind, the list goes on. We will challenge this but what's the likely outcome, most of these seem ridiculous to me.
P.S my daughter has always paid her rent and kept the house clean and well decorated. Thanks

Was the cooker new and left dirty? Could have had it cleaned cheaper but £90 isn't crazy.
Was the grass cut when she moved in and left long on move out? £30 sounds reasonable to pay someone.
Was the house left dirty so that it required cleaning? £40 for 2 hours sounds reasonable.
Was the blind okay, but now damaged? £20 sounds reasonable for replacement minus wear and tear.

I'm not sure where paying rent = issues should be left for a LL to rectify at their expense comes from.

Quote from: Jim4est on August 02, 2023, 06:34:19 PM
The house was flooded twice during that time

That may feel relevant to your daughter and to you but it has no bearing in the issue of any deductions from the deposit.

You daughter is required to leave the property and its contents in the same state as when she moved in, less allowance for reasonable wear and tear over the 3 years she has been there.

If she challenges the deductions then the dispute will go to the Dispute Resolution Service used by the deposit protection company.

1. The Landlord will need to submit written evidence / photos to back up their claim.
2. Your daughter will be able to challenge this with her own evidence.
3. The landlord will get an opportunity to respond.

The adjudicator will judge the claim on the basis of the evidence submitted.

Did the landlord have an inventory / condition report produced at Check-In?
Does it clearly state (or show in photos) the condition of the items about which a claim is being made?
Was a checkout inventory / condition report produced?

If the answer is no to all of those, then the landlord will have difficulty convincing the adjudicator that the property is in a worse state than when the tenancy began.


Some landlords have a tendency to go a bit over the top on their claims.
Some tenants try to deny all responsibility for damage.

Try to consider what is fair and to find a middle ground.

Quote from: Jim4est on August 02, 2023, 06:34:19 PM...most of these seem ridiculous to me.

As individual line items these seem fair to me. If they are issues that exist then calling them ridiculous seems unfair, especially coming from a bystander.

I cannot comment on whether they are needed, or not... but I do know that lawns cannot be left unmown and cookers should be left as clean as they where when the Tenant moved in. The moral question is whether your daughter can say this was the case? The actual question is whether the Landlord can prove it was the case.

I would assume, as you say the list goes on, there are more and the overall total is a figure that makes eyes water.

In this case, it's often best to negotiate rather than go the formal route - especially if the relationship was good up to this point. If the relationship wasn't a good one, then just follow the Deposit Protection Scheme's documented process... the Landlord will have to either engage with that (which can be onerous for them) or negotiate with you from a pragmatic standpoint. The idea behind Deposits is that neither the Landlord or Tenant should be financially out-of-pocket... well, not too much.

Often a dad will defend his daughter all the way, right? But what if the blinds were damaged during the tenancy? Should the Landlord pay to rectify damage that happened on your daughter's watch?

Of course not.

Morals.

I'm not saying the Landlord is right on all counts... I'm saying - if the blinds were damaged then £25 to replace (I doubt anyone will come out to repair blinds) is a bargain. And getting the lawn mowed so it is all nice and manicured for the next Tenant will easily be £30.

Maybe your expectations as to what are reasonable costs haven't kept up with the times? I find this every single time I go for a curry. How can somewhere charge £2.50 for a chapatti?

The actual charges are hard to evaluate because prices vary regionally. The landlord's allowed to seek compensation for any loss beyond fair wear and tear. Assuming the cooker isn't clean, the blind and bin have been broken and the place needs cleaning, those costs seem pretty reasonable (I'm based in the Midlands). They don't seem to be the actual costs, so they've clearly been adjusted to accommodate the normal wear and tear.
The lawn might be contentious, because that's a matter of personal preference (assuming the grass isn't waist deep).

Sometimes there is a difference of perception between landlord and tenant.

The attached pictures show the oven in a flat that I used to rent out.

The 1st photo is from my inventory/check-in report, which the tenant signed.
The 2nd photo is from my check-out report.

The tenant claimed that she had "cleaned the oven" and disputed my deposit claim.

This, and several other issues for which I had clear before and after photos, went to dispute resolution along with a claim for reasonable costs.

Unsurprisingly, I was awarded my claim.

None of those costs would be considered at all unusual in my area (Warwicks) Presumably there are photos and inventories to show the state of the place on moving in and after she left.Accepting consequences for our own actions is a valuable part of growing up (says one who had to learn that the hard way) and you are not doing her any favours by automatically assuming  she is not at fault.Paying her rent is not a factor that the landlord needs to consider.Why would she not pay for the use of that person's home? 

Quote from: Riptide on August 02, 2023, 07:35:44 PM
Was the cooker new and left dirty? Could have had it cleaned cheaper but £90 isn't crazy.
Was the grass cut when she moved in and left long on move out? £30 sounds reasonable to pay someone.
Was the house left dirty so that it required cleaning? £40 for 2 hours sounds reasonable.
Was the blind okay, but now damaged? £20 sounds reasonable for replacement minus wear and tear.

I'm not sure where paying rent = issues should be left for a LL to rectify at their expense comes from.

Hi I mentioned the rent and keeping the house to put things in context, she is not a bad tennant. There are other issues as well due to the fact the house was flooded 2 years running, the first time the Landlord took steps to clean the house the 2nd time she did not bother and my daughter paid for the redecoration. As a separate issue she has been harassed and intimidated after she was served a section 21 but could not immediately move out  as she and my grandaughter had no where to live.
It all got very aggressive and bitter and I had to take control and I had the section 21 rejected as she did not follow the correct procedure. Thanks for your input, I am obviously too close to make an unbiased evaluation, we will contest it even if only to cause her some grief.

Quote from: Jim4est on August 03, 2023, 12:04:01 PMI am obviously too close to make an unbiased evaluation, we will contest it even if only to cause her some grief.

This is probably true, but it's also fine... as a community we can only offer our perspective on these charge amounts and collectively we've advised you that they seem OK... to us. Whether they exist as fair / necessary deductions or not is another question entirely. And whether you want to work with the ex-Landlord to get a quick resolution is another question entirely. Every Deposit scheme has a process to follow when there's no agreement - so it's your absolute right to follow it and see what comes out the other side... sometimes even just raising the possibility might make a Landlord come more to your way of thinking.

Quote from: Hippogriff on August 03, 2023, 03:40:08 PM
[Every Deposit scheme has a process to follow when there's no agreement - so it's your absolute right to follow it and see what comes out the other side...

And what comes out the other side is crucially dependent on the solid before/after evidence that the landlord can provide to support their claim.

The onus is on the landlord to show that damage or neglect beyond fair wear and tear really has occurred.