UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi guys,

Given a really long term interest in property investment and the possibility of a substantial cash sum landing in my bank account in the near future, I decided recently to go along to one of these "free workshops" run by a company called Inside Track. The workshop was yesterday, and I've been doing a lot of thinking about it today; for now I'm glad I didn't commit my money to booking into one of the longer two-day seminars.

Has anyone else considered property investment training? Scouring the web it looks like there's quite a bit out there, and while costs vary I'm sure some of the courses are worthwhile.

Be interested to hear your thoughts,


Victoria

Hey Vic,

I've always been interested in those seminars, but I ws never sure if they actually teach you anything valuble. A lot of those free seminars are endorsed by a lot of affilite schemes, consequently try to push their own products onto you.

Out of curiosity, how was the seminar? Did you learn anything useful? And what kind of level were they catering for? Beginners?

Hi there

Well ... I'd say the seminars are pitched at beginners, although they do mention they might be useful to those who have already invested in property and have reached a kind of plateau.

What they say they will teach you in the two day seminar sounds useful - apparently you get template legal letters and explanations of various useful processes, info on how to finance and structure deals, how to vet tenants, how to find out what rent you're likely to receive etc. and the seminars gather together experts in the different subjects. If this is what's delivered then along with the great networking opportunity the course would be worth about what you pay if you go along as a couple, signing up at the free workshop; £1,250 each.

However, I personally don't feel comfortable with this particular organisation. The sell is too hard; if they were truly confident in the value of their product, I don't personally think they would feel the need to present it in this way. For example, their agents on the sales line won't tell you how much the course costs - you have to go to the workshop to find out. When you get there, you're told initially it was a three day course in a european city, for £11K (I'd be interested to hear from anyone who had attended the three day £11K seminar). My own personal theory is that the only reason they tell you this is so the comparatively "cheap" £3,995 cost of the two day UK seminar seems okay. Then, by the end of the workshop, if you sign up there and then you can get it for the bargain price of £2,495, and even bring a partner for free.

So by now they've told you the course is worth £1,250 per person. If it was truly worth more, you wouldn't get it at that price. So knowing that, why would I ever consider paying £3,995 for it???

The more concerning thing, though, is that of the two hour "free workshop" most of it was sales pitch for the more expensive course (which I did half expect, I'm not quite that dim) and the rest was stuff I'd mostly already read in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". Its about putting very little in, and being a millionnaire in five years. They have a whole suite of companies who will support the process; "Instant Access Properties" who will find these great deals for you, "fuel" - a mortgage broker (which has to be regulated by the FSA, which I personally suspect is the only reason you don't have to pay a membership fee for this one) and "aftercare" which takes care of you and supports you through the legal process from sale to post-completion, helps you furnish the place, find tenants etc.

Here's the sting; to get instant access to "Instant Access Properties" you pay a one off charge of just over £6K. Then, you pay 3% of the properties they find you (based on projected value, calculated by them - not the price you buy it for). The 3% I might be willing to stomach, but £6K before you even know the quality of the service? Don't forget, you've already spent £2,495 on your two day seminar (if you're quick). And if you buy "aftercare" with IAP (it didn't sound like you could buy it separately) it will cost you £119 per month, or about £1000 a year.

£119 per month!!!

On the basis of all this, I suspect each "seminar" is going to be a sales pitch for the next service. How much are they going to teach you about due diligence, when they want to get you to pay them £6K to do the "due diligence" for you (though I'm sure that'll be available at a "bargain" price if you sign up during the weekend". There's horror stories around if you look, a lady who was featured in a Guardian article who has lost money on properties she bought through IAP. If you tot up your costs, you'll already have spent over half a reasonable deposit on seminars and services before you even own a property.

Three specific things about my own experience really stuck in my mind; 1. I felt buyer's remorse even though I hadn't bought anything - just because I'd considered it, and have realised since just how much of a mistake it might have been, 2. the hardness of the sell; I can respect a salesman who uses positive sales tactics to encourage you to part with your money - that's his job, after all - but I can't respect a salesman who starts berating those who might walk out the door without signing up as "weak", people who will obviously never succeed or even "unteachable"; big red flags and 3. just before the seminar one of the assistants (an "experienced property investor") came and spoke to me to find out a little about my background, and I explained that I wanted to do something *responsible* with the money from my late grandmother's estate - I didn't like the way her eyes dodged my gaze when I said that.

These are just my own personal thoughts and experience, of course. Some people may get some value from the course, and I might even consider it at some point in the future to satisfy my curiosity, but with my trust already diminished by the experience of a two hour workshop I'd have a lot of serious thinking to do before I started to consider giving these people the kind of money required to buy a house. And I'd have to have already made several hundred thousand pounds from property to be prepared to give them even the £1,250 for that, by which point would I really need it?

Just before I left I asked when the Birmingham seminars were, going forward. They don't seem to like booking ahead, its all NOW NOW NOW. To be fair, I can see the economical argument to not book ages ahead. But anyway, this guy spent five minutes using a pc to find out the second closest date, and it happened to fall on a weekend when I already know I have an exam. He was almost aghast, and impressed upon me the criticality of going there soon, because obviously all the time I'd not been on this course, I was missing out!! If I had to go to a different UK city to do the course, boy, I should seize that chance with both hands. Its best I leave my personal opinions of the way this individual came across off of this board, but suffice to say, I almost felt sorry for him; genuine or not, it was as though he actually believed it.

So there you go ... I'd like to think some of the others are different, but for now I'm going to get stuck into reading the history of the motley fool property investment board and another one I've found called singing pig, and of course this blog, and see what I can glean for free while taking good care of the pennies!


V

Wow, great details, Vic

I can't believe they charge that much for seminars. 11k is unbelievable.

They're trying to give the illusion that they're giving away great deals by 'pretending' they are cutting prices..etc. Instead of giving all that "bring a partner free" and mentioning the 11k deal, they should just say, "£1,250 per person". The whole setup wouldn't seem so dodgy that way.

I kind of assumed that they would try and sell something at the free workshops. God, that's so typical and annoying.

I don't think I'll ever attend any of those seminars. It's just one big sales pitch, with very little real information.

Thanks a lot for the write. Very useful information!!!

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