UK Landlord Forum / Life

My apologies from the off if I'm not using the correct "Forum" etiquette this is my first ever foray into a forum environment. I have read through the Admin posting about new users and don't think I'm out of order but

As briefly as possible. My daughter, for various reasons, finds herself a reluctant landlord. She is paying for a managed service with a lettings agency but this is very quickly proving to be a waste of money.........I'm her Dad and am about as experienced as she is but between us we're attempting to manage this nightmare until we can sell the property and leave it to you experts, and good luck to all of you who actually choose to do it !!!

Her latest problem is, the tenant while attempting to "defrost" the fridge freezer has somehow managed to punch through the inner lining of the unit (several times) and damage the coil or element or whatever it is that makes the fridge do it's stuff and it's a write off. This has been confirmed buy a qualified engineer who has provided a report etc. A replacement of a like for like unit will be around £550.00, which the tenant says they haven't got the money for.

My question is, is my daughter legally obliged to fork out for this because they simply say they can't ? (neither can she by the way) or can we just leave them without a replacement ?

If I sound a bit brutal and you think I should maybe be a bit more considerate or helpful towards them, in their 5 months of occupation in a very nice flat, which is only around 6 years old and was in pristine condition when they moved in, my daughter has replaced the washing machine, an electric wall heater and an electric towel rail all because they "just broke"

Thanks in advance - even if I don't think I'm gonna like the responses I will hopefully get

Cheers

Your etiquette is fine. Welcome to forums.

Obviously anything supplied in a property by a LL that 'breaks' needs to be repaired or replaced by the LL.

This doesn't extend to willful damage which is what this is, accidental or not.

I haven't had this situation but if the carpet was burnt through with an iron, I would be looking at replacing it but deducting it minus fair wear and tear from the deposit when they leave. It's unfortunate that they've destroyed such a vital appliance.

Sounds like section 21, educating yourself and ditching the agent is long overdue.

When your a LL you're not a property managers as the bricks and mortar look after themselves, the essential part is having the right tenant in and there are plenty currently looking.

So, the tenant should pay, not like for like at the moment as they're mid tenancy but needs to be like for like or deposit deducted minus fair wear and tear when they leave.

Well, fact number one is that things do actually "just break". I realise the suspicion and sarcasm offered by you here, but it is actually true. In this case the reason for the failure is down to the Tenant. I had the exact same thing happen to me at the beginning of this year. A swanky apartment, integrated freezer... Tenant elected to take a large knife to some iced-up areas and - voila! - the freezer no longer freezes. In my case the Tenant was a rich foreign student so was happy to pay towards a new freezer (but not 100%, and that wouldn't be fair) and Currys then needed 3 separate visits to actually remove and install the new integrated model (it was working, but out of its slot after the first visit). So the answer is - no, you cannot leave a Tenant without the means of cooling / freezing produce. As to who pays - in this case, the Tenant should eventually shoulder something, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'd pay up-front - you should have a Deposit to 'negotiate' at tenancy end.

No Landlord should be operating so close to the bone that they struggle to effect repairs in a timely manner. Take into account what I expect to be true - but could be corrected - this fridge freezer came with the flat or was bought new back then, and has an age of 6 years? So depreciation has to be taken into account here. Also... on your side... while a Landlord has an obligation to make this right, they also must be given a "reasonable time" to effect repairs... "reasonable" is never defined. However, if you've already had an Engineer visit and a report created... I guess you must be dragging things out a little bit - maybe they've suffered (through their own fault) enough?

In my situation - which was very similar to yours - I'd placed the order for the replacement integrated freezer with Currys the day I confirmed it wasn't freezing, which was the day after I'd been told, which was about four days after the Tenant had committed GBH on it... so, by the time Currys turned up, it was actually approaching two whole weeks!

I had this happen some years ago.The tenant was very clumsy and accident prone,and a general pain.She had no spare cash, and the fridge in question was several years old so I got a new one. I am tougher now than I was then.I would seek any sales bargains for a replacement,and then serve s21 at the earliest opportunity. I would also claim some of the cost from the deposit, decline to give a reference and dispense with the L.A.

If the freezer is an integrated unit, it's part of the property and the answer might be different.

If the unit is a free-standing fridge freezer, there's no black and white answer to the question. It's not part of a landlord's repair obligations and so the answer is either in the tenancy agreement or it's a grey area. It's best to be clear about who replaces / repairs white goods up front, because they can be contentious. White goods don't last forever, and, just because they're in place when a tenant moves in, doesn't mean that that has to be the case throughout.

If you imagine a line that starts with the roof and ends with a lightbulb, at some point on that line, the landlord stops being responsible for providing a replacement, but it's not that clear where it is.

In this case, it's made more complicated because the landlord has already replaced a washing machine, which has established a precedent.

Probably a sensible rule of thumb would be, if the tenancy ended today, would the landlord claim anything from the tenant for the damaged / non-working item?

However, in this case, the basic principle doesn't matter. The tenant's damaged the freezer unit and should either replace it or live without it.  There's no doubt that they're responsible (as a younger person I did the same to a freezer, it's easily done).

HI,

Thanks to everyone for their input, all very valid points and much appreciated.

It's good to get other peoples take on a situation it puts things into perspective.

We are going forward (via the letting agent) asking the tenant to pay for a like for like replacement with my daughter bearing some of the cost based on the fact that the unit is 6 years old.

Hopefully this will be suitable for all concerned.

Thanks again for all your opinions

We've had a similar issue before, so we now we don't provide 'white goods'. We make sure it's documented at the start of a tenancy that any white goods are 'gifted' from previous tenants and it's the tenants responsibility to replace if broken'. This also saves you getting electrical items PAT tested 😊

I was told that PAT testing applied to all  small electrical items,whether on the inventory or not.I don't supply anything other than white goods,and take full responsibility for replacing them.

Quote from: heavykarma on July 15, 2023, 07:51:09 AM
I was told that PAT testing applied to all  small electrical items,whether on the inventory or not.I don't supply anything other than white goods,and take full responsibility for replacing them.

It's anything that can be moved with a plug on! I think the general rule of thumb is small items every 2 years and larger items every 4 years.

PAT is not a wholesale legal requirement. Just in case anyone thought it was. Of course, local Council schemes, HMOs and other outliers (Scotland?) can change that broad brush statement.

PAT could be considered best practice.