UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi
Just a quick question about decorating

Being a 'new' landlord, I'm learning as I go ;-)
So my tenant has been there nearly 2 years . She decorated when she moved in colour to her liking
I noticed on last visit that it is a little grubby around the edges in some places
The Tenancy agreement wasn't really specific about timings of re-decorating etc ( new landlord error!)

I've heard a landlord say that he states that the properties must be decorated every 3 years of which is the tenants responsibility and he reimburses % of the rental.
Is this normal practice or just for larger rental businesses?
How do small time landlords ( just one property) manage?
Would be grateful for any advice

Joanna

Most landlords don't allow their tenants to decorate at all.
I've never heard of any policy like the one quoted by "a landlord".

It's your house,but while a tenant is living there it is their home. A landlord cannot forbid normal changes,like different wall painting. Legally a tenant is supposed to restore things to how they were when they moved in.If they change Magnolia to orange, is up to them to repaint before moving out. Likewise ,you cannot dictate how often they should paint. The landlord you mention would not be able to enforce his rules.

Quote from: Glitterbug on September 06, 2022, 04:53:32 PMI've heard a landlord say that he states that the properties must be decorated every 3 years of which is the tenants responsibility and he reimburses % of the rental.

That wouldn't be normal, or allowed.

Nor is your sniffing around and noticing some areas are a little grubby... it's got nothing to do with you. You can do inspections to try and identify issues where things might need repair or suchlike, but you cannot comment on things like paintwork being a little grubby or the way the Tenant arranges their things... that's just their lifestyle and their accepted obligation is to return the property to you (at the end of the tenancy) in much the same condition as it was at the start of the tenancy, minus any fair wear and tear (sometimes can be a bit subjective).

The other Landlord is close to the edge... but you can try to insert clauses into tenancy agreements that are like that... it's all about whether the Tenants meekly accept it if they've had chance to be made aware of it before commencing the tenancy. Obviously people grubby things up in their own particular way so 3 years is a completely arbitrary timescale... and it can't be justified in any way, shape or form. You could say it's reasonable, but based on what? There's no accepted timescale out there for repainting, is there?

What you should get documented - if you allow Tenants to redecorate - is what the expectation is at the end of the tenancy - leave as-is (if done well) or return to Landlord-magnolia. Document that via the tenancy agreement if possible or - more likely - an email agreement that is specific to the circumstance... then no-one can argue the toss at the end... if they paint a wall a nice rust matt as a feature wall and you like it and it's done well, when they leave you can agree that it won't need to be repainted (not just for the hell of it). In this grown-up, pragmatic world not everything needs to be defined and limited in the tenancy agreement as cast in stone.

And let's face it... unless they're painting ceilings in purple gloss it probably isn't a big deal.

Quote from: heavykarma on September 07, 2022, 08:22:19 AMThe landlord you mention would not be able to enforce his rules.

Because some of the cost is borne by the tenant, it's actually unlawful (Tenant Fees Act).

Quote from: jpkeates on September 07, 2022, 07:33:27 AMMost landlords don't allow their tenants to decorate at all.

So if tenants can't decorate and they're there for 10 plus years, how is it managed?

Pragmatism again, I suppose.

The average length of a tenancy in the UK (or maybe England, I dunno) used to be around 18 months... so people were kinda in and out as a general rule and the idea of Tenants redecorating in that time was often not an issue. Obviously as Landlords, a lot of us do appreciate long-term Tenants... that's been reinforced by the time of Covid... and it's a lot less costly to avoid Tenant changeovers too frequently... but, as a counter to that, I am feeling as though longer-term Tenants do encourage us Landlords to take on some bad behaviours... or ones that don't necessarily intercept with our own long-term interests... like the spring-clean and TLC a property will automatically get at the end of a tenancy... that's out of the window... like the opportunity to increase rents... that often is re-assessed as a property is marketed to a new Tenant. There's too much convenience in just letting properties run-as-they-are if the same Tenants are in situ for years and years... but - then think about how you start to become a lax, but also more accommodating with Tenant requests... so a request to redecorate a room might be accepted from a Tenant who's been paying you rent for 3 years, much more so than a Tenant who has just moved in...

If your situation is that kind (you say 2 years)... then you might allow them to do redecorating... which you did when the moved in (that's the strange part of this, I guess)... but you can't force them to do it now just because you have noticed it's not particularly holding up well (after 2 years)... and the way casually wrote "on last visit" worries me... is there anything particular to the situation here, are they next door, or your friend, because I am always consciously trying to keep out of my Tenant's lives... I just want interaction where I am told of maintenance issues and the rent lands in my account when it's supposed to. I put paid to Inspections as I became more experienced... there's no point, no-one likes them, no good feelings come out of them and it creates an adversarial aspect to what should be a productive and respectful business relationship.

It's not about grubby paint, you see?
It's about whether your Tenants are happy in their home.
It's about whether your asset is in general good-nick (again, not at the paint or toys scattered around level).

Quote from: Glitterbug on September 07, 2022, 10:59:54 AMSo if tenants can't decorate and they're there for 10 plus years, how is it managed?

I decorate every few years, usually between tenants, but for longer term tenants with them in situ.

Often if the tenants are there it's a refresh of the gloss and sometimes just the stairs hall and landing.

Quote from: Hippogriff on September 07, 2022, 11:24:56 AM
Pragmatism again, I suppose.

The average length of a tenancy in the UK (or maybe England, I dunno) used to be around 18 months... so people were kinda in and out as a general rule and the idea of Tenants redecorating in that time was often not an issue. Obviously as Landlords, a lot of us do appreciate long-term Tenants... that's been reinforced by the time of Covid... and it's a lot less costly to avoid Tenant changeovers too frequently... but, as a counter to that, I am feeling as though longer-term Tenants do encourage us Landlords to take on some bad behaviours... or ones that don't necessarily intercept with our own long-term interests... like the spring-clean and TLC a property will automatically get at the end of a tenancy... that's out of the window... like the opportunity to increase rents... that often is re-assessed as a property is marketed to a new Tenant. There's too much convenience in just letting properties run-as-they-are if the same Tenants are in situ for years and years... but - then think about how you start to become a lax, but also more accommodating with Tenant requests... so a request to redecorate a room might be accepted from a Tenant who's been paying you rent for 3 years, much more so than a Tenant who has just moved in...

If your situation is that kind (you say 2 years)... then you might allow them to do redecorating... which you did when the moved in (that's the strange part of this, I guess)... but you can't force them to do it now just because you have noticed it's not particularly holding up well (after 2 years)... and the way casually wrote "on last visit" worries me... is there anything particular to the situation here, are they next door, or your friend, because I am always consciously trying to keep out of my Tenant's lives... I just want interaction where I am told of maintenance issues and the rent lands in my account when it's supposed to. I put paid to Inspections as I became more experienced... there's no point, no-one likes them, no good feelings come out of them and it creates an adversarial aspect to what should be a productive and respectful business relationship.

It's not about grubby paint, you see?
It's about whether your Tenants are happy in their home.
It's about whether your asset is in general good-nick (again, not at the paint or toys scattered around level).

Hi Hippogriff

Yes I think maybe you've read a little too  much into it , or maybe I didnt word my mail in the best way!
No I do keep out of my tenants life as much as possible! Definitely no 'snooping!!!!
I was there fitting a new bath panel and so noticed the decor as anyone would,  which prompted my thoughts about responsibility of keeping it up
And yes, I acknowledge my tenants choice and it is none of my business, I am merely asking the question for me going forward as a landlord.
And whether I need to re-visit the lease to get something more specific written down in black and white , or just leave it as it is
I let her paint when she moved in as she preferred a different  colour, which I didn't mind at all- still neutral, but as you've just mentioned in your last mail , things like the glossing
I wondered how it was managed ; whether by time frame or on a 'when it needs doing' basis
Thanks for your input
I know which way i'll go with it 
Joanna

Quote from: jpkeates on September 07, 2022, 11:47:07 AM

Quote from: Glitterbug on September 07, 2022, 10:59:54 AMSo if tenants can't decorate and they're there for 10 plus years, how is it managed?

I decorate every few years, usually between tenants, but for longer term tenants with them in situ.

Often if the tenants are there it's a refresh of the gloss and sometimes just the stairs hall and landing.

Thank you
just common sense really then!!
Happy glossing!
Jo

I gave consent to a tenant to repaint once,not knowing that she was a Goth. All the rooms were purple or black.To be fair,she did apply many many coats of magnolia before leaving.

Quote from: Glitterbug on September 07, 2022, 02:04:08 PMYes I think maybe you've read a little too  much into it , or maybe I didnt word my mail in the best way!

Good, I feared you might let slip that you were doing quarterly inspections or something.

I do most repairs myself, I ask tenants not to let things develop & tell me as soon as possible if something requires attention, I also tell them I'm not your Dad I'm looking beyond pots & pans in the sink & washing all over the place. It's there home they live they use wear & tear end of.