UK Landlord Forum / Life

Please help!

Female tenant with two teenage girls moved in some years ago claiming housing benefit. Relationship was initially excellent so i part furnished it. She also paid for some items. Two weeks prior to moving out she told me she would be doing so... Fine no problem. But after leaving i find she has taken a lot of my furniture but still leaves a lot of her stuff in the property and refuses to return keys.

She took 2 leather suites, a TV, computer tables, leather chair, beds, and a whole lot of other stuff.

Although i remain silent about the furniture I do text her continuously and numerously asking her to remove her stuff and give back keys but it's always "will do in two days" or "require another day" etc.. Three weeks go by and her stuff still remains in my house. I text her again on 25th August asking for keys and removal of stuff but still same reply. So on 25th August i inform her that i will throw her stuff into a skip during the next day.

I actually don't throw them out what i do is pack her stuff in boxes and in my van make three trips to her doorstep and leave her stuff in the garden. She is aware as she is in  the kitchen at the time.

My property is fully alarmed and has the snap proof keys which can't be duplicated.

Next day i return and i find human human excrement on the carpets. bleach on the sofas. kitchen cupboards broken, nail polish over the walls, a broken bed, curtains ripped off, basically the whole house needs redecorating and won't be available for rent for at least 4 weeks. total damage that will cost minimum £3000 pounds to put right plus loss of rent and i have to change the locks; they're expensive.

The Police agree that it's obviously her as no sign of break-in and that the alarm was switched back on and doors locked when she left.  Police can't do anything as I need to seek legal advice.

Please help - what can i do: The stuff she took with her i don't have any proof that it was mine (not mentioned in lease). and can i take her to court for damages to the property? I have photograph evidence of the damage.

thanks

Hello Shaan,

I'm sorry to say but I think you need to learn from it.  I think you've got a good case to instigate privately funded civil prosecution for criminal damage.  But you could get into counter claims around what you did to her property and if your tenant is on benefits, what cash will you get out of your "straw man".  And you'd have to pay your own legal costs.

The major learns are:
+ The inventory must be accurate, even if that means updating mid-tenancy;
+ If you're going to do anything like this, change the locks first.

Consider yourself lucky that you didn't get a criminal record for illegally evicting her. The tenancy had not ended. She was still liable for rent and you should have pointed that out and waited until in her own time she returned the keys and surrendered the tenancy properly after which you'd have pursued her for the outstanding rent arrears through legal means.

Quote from: Jeremy on August 29, 2012, 08:10:42 PM
Hello Shaan,

I'm sorry to say but I think you need to learn from it.  I think you've got a good case to instigate privately funded civil prosecution for criminal damage.  But you could get into counter claims around what you did to her property and if your tenant is on benefits, what cash will you get out of your "straw man".  And you'd have to pay your own legal costs.

The major learns are:
+ The inventory must be accurate, even if that means updating mid-tenancy;
+ If you're going to do anything like this, change the locks first.

Thank you for answer. I agree i don't think i can get any money out of someone claiming benefits it's just the satisfaction of getting a CCJ against this person. i'm aware I'd have to pay legal costs but i have a solicitor friend who won't charge me therefore i would think it's only court costs, would you agree?. any ideas how much cost would be leaving out a solicitor?

Also if i have agreed to her moving out and subsequently she does, does that not constitute to an end of the tenancy?

and finally was i wrong to remove her stuff after 3 weeks and deliver it to her new address? Contract stated i would "store items for 28 days or such other period as is reasonable in the circumstances" and after that i could dispose of them "as is reasonable". 

was i wrong to remove and deliver her stuff? i know it wasn't 28 days but i was relying on the reasonable bit in the contract.

i'd really appreciate your answers - thanks again

Quote from: Armin on August 30, 2012, 08:47:40 AM
Consider yourself lucky that you didn't get a criminal record for illegally evicting her. The tenancy had not ended. She was still liable for rent and you should have pointed that out and waited until in her own time she returned the keys and surrendered the tenancy properly after which you'd have pursued her for the outstanding rent arrears through legal means.

Thanks for your answer. Just a bit unsure on one thing.

if she wishes to leave and i agree does that not constitute an end to tenancy when she leaves?
i never asked her to leave, never evicted her it was her own choice.

It's obvious she needed a place to store her belongings and kept me hanging for three weeks. i couldn't keep it empty for any longer, there was so much work to do: redecorate etc..

does she really have a case against me? i'm honestly unsure and appreciate your answer.

Quote from: Shaan on August 30, 2012, 09:46:20 AM

Quote from: Armin on August 30, 2012, 08:47:40 AM
Consider yourself lucky that you didn't get a criminal record for illegally evicting her. The tenancy had not ended. She was still liable for rent and you should have pointed that out and waited until in her own time she returned the keys and surrendered the tenancy properly after which you'd have pursued her for the outstanding rent arrears through legal means.

Thanks for your answer. Just a bit unsure on one thing.

if she wishes to leave and i agree does that not constitute an end to tenancy when she leaves?
i never asked her to leave, never evicted her it was her own choice.

It's obvious she needed a place to store her belongings and kept me hanging for three weeks. i couldn't keep it empty for any longer, there was so much work to do: redecorate etc..

does she really have a case against me? i'm honestly unsure and appreciate your answer.

Yes, I really think she has a case against you. It's not a slam dunk against you for fortunately you didn't change the locks on her. But from what I read, it seems to me that the tenancy had not ended. I am not a solicitor and this is not legal advice. But given that she probably qualifies for legal aid so gets represented for free, she could well make your life and future hell. My advice is to redecorate and let it go for nothing good is likely to come from it when you pursue.

My 2p.

Thank you Armin

I will take your advice and let it go

Hi Shaan,

Really pleased to see you're letting things go.  I'm sorry for what's happened to you.  But you'll bounce back much better if you "move on".

The 28 days / three weeks thing.  Bit of a grey area.  As your contract stipulates 28 days that implies it would be the norm.  So there's an implied term that says it will be something unusual / imperative which would make you dispose of the chattels early.  Just needing to re-rent / sell / renovate would not count.  That's quite normal at the end of a tenancy.  Next time, cut back the time to, say, 14 days.

Hi Armin,

Hope you're well and tings are going good for you.  What makes you think the tenancy had not come to and end by mutual consent?  Have I missed something because I can't see how you come to think there was an illegal eviction here.

Quote from: Jeremy on August 30, 2012, 10:13:03 PM
Hi Armin,

Hope you're well and tings are going good for you.  What makes you think the tenancy had not come to and end by mutual consent?  Have I missed something because I can't see how you come to think there was an illegal eviction here.

Hi J,

Things are well, I have tenants and I need to update my landlord story thread sometime. I subscribe to the view that unless a tenant signs a witnessed deed of surrender while returning the keys, then only a court can legally end the tenancy. Anything falling short to that can later be legally challenged by the more or less ex-tenant with a degree of prospect for success.

In OP's case, the keys were still with the tenants and OP had no evidence other than his own statement that the tenant surrendered the tenancy. Therefore the tenant could have easily turned around and claimed that in fact the tenancy never ended and unleash all sorts of hell armed with a publicly funded solicitor.

But I'm not a solicitor and that's just my opinion.

-Armin

Thank you Jeremy & Armin for both of your answers.

i will heed all the advice you've given.

Honestly, i have learnt so much from you guys and can't thank you enough.