UK Landlord Forum / Life

I know its probably a bit early to worry but I just wanted some advice really.
My tenant has been in 6 months and paid the 6 months up front. This is the first month after the 6 months and he said he would set up a standing order and i have had nothing through yet.
Apart from just being nice and reminding him that he has to pay what can I do.

He has said he has been ill but really that doesn't wash with me.. he knew it was coming.

As you say, inform him the rent is due by whatever method you choose (letter, text) and stating that it is also due on the X of each month here after.  Followed swiftly by a Section 21 (presume you protected the deposit correctly) shortly after if it's not forth coming.  Threats are a big no no.

Thanks Riptide.
I have texted him a fair bit reminding him that it is due. He has said he is on the case but 9 days to set up a standing order is taking the mic. I also texted him the week before to remind him it was coming up. The rent is due on the 1st of each month.
Yes deposit is protected.

OHHH no no threats I have kept it all nice.

A standing order (as you well know) isn't needed to be setup to pay the rent.  2 minutes on the phone, internet or a trip to the bank would have it sorted in a jiffy.

You've done your part, the tenant hasn't done theirs.  A section 21 ASAP will go one of two ways, get you the rent, or not.  If they're not paying they're not paying and that's not the sort of tenant you need going forward.  You've got the deposit, section 21 ASAP and damage will be limited.  LL's shouldn't need to beg for rent.

I heard from him this morning giving and excuse of his pension hasnt come through yet and it wont till the 15th dec.. Now I know and you know that this is just an excuse and it doesnt wash with me. Rent is the most important outgoing per month.
The thing is.. I am a fairly new landlord and this whole legal stuff like the section 21 scares the hell out of me.

A Section 21 is simply a 1 page or 2 page document (probably 1 page) that you can create yourself and you can send yourself (just send 2 copies and get a free proof of postage from each different Post Office you use)... it's nothing to be scared of. It might focus the mind of the Tenant (that has worked for me in the past) but it might also get their back up. You understand that you are being taken for a ride right now... what do you usually do when you understand that someone is taking you for a ride, do you allow them to continue?

I did do a bit of googling on it. yeah you can get them off the net which is good.
Yes your right of course.

I don't want to get heavy with him though. I know people have issues with money now and then. I don't want to look like a complete bitch and not having a heart. but yes it is a business.
I have said that this is not going to happen every month.

I also have a 6 monthly inspection to do which is now arranged for Sat so Ill be having a word to him about it all then. If nothing is paid.

Ah, I forgot that your Tenant here is a good personal friend of yours, my bad.

I am just trying to find that line between heavy and reasonable that is all.

As I said i know people go through hard times. I just don't want to have to jump in with a serving notice after 9 days.

Sure... like hotels do. When guests stay but can't pay they're always reasonable about it, giving extra time, letting it slide... they're never heavy and always reasonable.

It's the same with shops... if I want stuff, but I can't afford to pay for it, I am finding that they're all really understanding these days and just let me take the stuff anyway.

It's a nice world we live in these days. I'm being facetious in making my point, right, but you said it yourself - "it is a business"... so these flexible payment terms should probably be in your documentation.

You're already going down the wrong path, too sympathetic and lenient, buck your ideas up now or get ready to be walked over.  Not wanting to sound harsh but you need to feel like it is.  Rent is owed, it should be the no1 priority from a tenant, like a mortgage payment would be by a home owner.  Do not have a word on Saturday, be firmer.  He should be borrowing the money, doing whatever he needs to to keep a roof over his head.  At the moment hes found a soft touch so doesn't need to.  9 days is a long time as it shouldn't even get to 1.  You're at the narrow end of a very thick edge right now.

Giving notice means nothing, you can revoke it at any point, it's not something you do with no turning back from and shows you mean business and will hopefully get him to buck up his ideas.  Take yourself out of the equation and imagine you were paying someone to manage the property for you.  Would you expect them to 'have a word' and allow the rent to slide? 

If you want to get an idea of what you should be doing, read the blogs on this very website and see that the owner is hard but fair.  You need to get into that mindset.

As for 'people have money issues now and then' he paid 6 months up front, you reminded him about the first payment and now he's trying to mug you off for as long as he can.  He's had half a year to prepare for this day.

Thank you for all your comments on this.

I feel like I have been told off.

But I do see all your points and thanks for having your say.

Now this section 21..
I take it now i can just write my own and give to him??

As you said I can retract it at anytime

But this is just a case of giving him 2 months to move out.
If, in the worst case scenario he doesn't pay that will be 3 months not paid surely.


sorry for being silly. I just need to know how easy this is. As I said there is a lot I need to learn and find out.
oh I do read the questions on here. They are so helpful.

Quote from: paulaa on December 09, 2015, 08:36:12 PM
But this is just a case of giving him 2 months to move out.
If, in the worst case scenario he doesn't pay that will be 3 months not paid surely.

The best case scenario is that he pays up upon receipt of the section 21.  Your worst case scenario above is not the worst case that can happen.

He's either going to pay the rent or not pay the rent.  The more you delay, a week, 2 weeks, a month, the longer the clock ticks, the more rent not paid.  You giving notice doesn't mean he doesn't have to pay rent.

A section 21 is only a request.  If it's not complied with then you have to get a possession order through the courts.

Quote from: paulaa on December 09, 2015, 08:36:12 PMNow this section 21..
I take it now i can just write my own and give to him??

Yes, correct... write your own, check your dates and keep it simple (give at least 2 months, put the date as "after" a rental period that is over 2 months from now) and all should be fine. Remember that your actual desire is not to act on it... it's to focus the mind of the Tenant if possible. Yes, it could backfire, but even that has to be better than being taken for a ride. At least, with the Section 21 being served and the chance of it being acted upon, it will show the Tenant you are serious... plus, if you do need to act on it, better to have served it now, rather than in 2 further months.

First sign of doubt, threaten to kick the buggers out.

I've never had to take a Section 21 to Court and seek possession.

Hi there.
Another stupid question regarding this.
The tenant is on a AST for a year. Ending in 1st June of 2016.

I take it I can still serve the section 21 even if his contract is still ongoing?

By giving two months notice?

Just been doing some research on them.
Is there any specific legal text that you need to include in a S21 ??

You can serve it, but it would expire then... not in around 2 months from now. Have you been paid yet?

If not you might need to prepare yourself for no rent until that time, and longer. Section 8 might be a possibility.

But surely if you serve it now he would have to be out by the given two  months date. say the 15th February

Is it valid cause he is still on a fixed term contract.

No he hasnt paid yet. I am seeing him tomorrow so was thinking of taking a S21 with me to give to  him.

A fixed term is a fixed term. This is why most Landlords have a standard 6 month fixed term AST (not always and not all of them) before allowing it to go SPT.

So bottom line is I cant kick him out till June then?

At least, via Section 21.

If you can use a Section 8 for rent arrears, that's possible.

I had a similar problem with a tenant. It took me 5 months doing what you are about to start.
The tenant ran away and I lost £5,000.00 in rent and damages. Good luck!

He has to be 2 months in arrears before you can serve a section 8, and then you have to give 14 days notice...

Is this a single man renting out an entire house?
This is becoming a common scam; someone comes along paying six month in advance and then lives the next 3-5 months free while the landlord tries to remove them.  Although I must admit never heard of one where the landlord had granted a 12 month tenancy...this could be quite painful...

You can serve a section 8 and a section 21 at the same time but the section 21 will have such a long lead time it's hardly worth it and may only reinforce the idea the tenant can hang on for a while...

However do go in with your eyes open on the section 8 route...there are plenty of horror stories about landlords having to pay for tenants legal fees etc if the section 8 fails for whatever reason in the courts.

Serve the section 8 and see what the tenant says...from now on record every communication in writing...including demands for rent payment.

Feeling for you as I don't think this is going to turn out well.
Best of luck.

Thanks you for your input.
So things have changed again. I did do the research on the section 8 with the rent arrears.
BUT he paid yesterday which is good that he has paid but bad that its 15 days late. 

I did a 6 monthly inspection aswell and wasnt too impressed with how the looks after just 6 months.

I am getting quite worried with it all now. And how this might all turn out.

Good news ...he paid.
Honestly that could not be better news.

You have put yourself in a bit of a hole on this one but if he keeps paying even then you can still come out of this unscathed  and never make the same mistake again.
If he let you do an inspection then that's an even more positive sign... Things may not be as bad as I feared.

You need to realize that most tenants will not keep the state of the property to the level you would ...right now don't sweat the state of the property (for your own sanity) keep on top of the payments.

I would not threaten a possesion order (you can't serve one now anyway) in case that damages the relationship and you are on the back foot now until June.

Good news
Best of luck

The property just has to be returned to you in the same state you let it, accepting reasonable wear and tear, it's generally not a concern of a Landlord how a Tenant might live in the meantime.

15 days late is immeasurably better than not being paid.

So seems like the same again this month. I know the rent would be late considering the holidays but its late again now. I haven't contacted him yet to see where it is.
I think this is going to be happening every month now and that worries me.

As I have said before he is in a contract (AST) until June.

If he pays late is there no way of getting him out???

Quote from: paulaa on January 06, 2016, 10:24:35 PM
So seems like the same again this month. I know the rent would be late considering the holidays but its late again now. I haven't contacted him yet to see where it is.
I think this is going to be happening every month now and that worries me.

As I have said before he is in a contract (AST) until June.

If he pays late is there no way of getting him out???

Really he has to be 2 months in arrears to go own the uncertain section 8 route.  Much better to use section 21 when you can.

You don't ignore it. You need to chase the day after it was supposed to be with you. The Tenant might have thought they reset the date after the last payment, anything. Leaving it is no good for anyone.

Gosh, lots of replies here! Have had the same problem several times - I always say, okay we'll do it on the old basis (usually cash) which gives you enough time to set up the dd for next month.
Not saying it always works, but I AM saying it HAS worked which is a triumph for me.