UK Landlord Forum / Life

I was wondering if anyone could help me please. I am completely new to the landlord world.  New flat new tenant moved in 1st June on a 6 months agreement ending 30th November 2023. I need to serve a section 21 as all the residents are complaining to me about bad behaviour, smoking, and lots more. I am totally distraught about this and just want the tenant out and sell the flat, it's obviously not for me. As it's the tenants first rental period with me I know I can't serve the section 21 in the first four months of the agreement, but would anyone be kind enough to give me advise on exactly what dates I should use, ie when to issue the section 22 and can the end date still finish on 30th November 2023. I am sorry to bother you all but I am at my wits end as the tenant says they don't want to leave. Kind regards Tricia

I am so sorry that your first experience has been stressful for you.I have to ask though,are the complaints you are getting serious enough to warrant such drastic action? Would you otherwise still want them out? When I first bought a rental flat all the others were owner occupied,and there was much animosity from some of them (seemed to think I must be very rich) The most decent tenants got complaints made about them.You are not responsible for controlling the behaviour of the tenant,though I do understand there are some circumstances when one does have to intervene out of common decency.Have you spoken to the tenant and heard their side of things? Don't allow yourself to be bullied into what could be an even worse scenario.

If you still want to serve notice, you could do so after 1st.October.This would in theory take you up to the start of December,but you must appreciate that the tenant does not have to vacate on that date.
 

There is a flowchart sticky at the top of this forum.

You're not responsible for the behaviour of your tenants, you're letting them a property, you haven't adopted them.

Let the neighbours sort it out directly - what will they do if you do sell the property and the people you sell it to behave the same as the tenants (or worse)?

And complaining about smoking? What planet are these people on. It's not something I like personally, but people are allowed to smoke! (And, if they're smoking something that they shouldn't, let them report it to the police who will do exactly nothing about it either).

The advice given above about dates is spot on, but you're being pushed into what can be a drawn out and stressful process by people who won't be sharing the expense or stress.

Thank you for the replies. I have had numerous complaints about the tenant allowing people to sleep in Cavan sun the car park, the bailiffs have been round to repossess her car, there have been very loud arguments heard and smoking drugs. And we have to remind the tenant on the 1st of each month for payment, which she has done. Honest opinion please, do you think these are all red flags.  Also the post from Karma, would it be convenient to explain why she does not have to leave after the lease agreement end date of the 30th November. Thank you everybody

There are, broadly, two types of residential tenancy agreement possible in England. One has a tenancy that starts with an initial fixed term and then automatically extends with the terms of the extension being defined. Then there are the type that don't extend, and just come to an end.

If your tenancy agreement is the second type, the law says that a tenant doesn't have to leave when the first period ends and a new periodic (usually monthly tenancy) is automatically created, which continues until the tenant serves notice or the landlord persuades the tenant to leave or gets a possession order from a court.

The agreement is the first option, start and finish date in the tenancy agreement. Does this have a baring on my situation please.

I have to ask,how did you select this tenant? What checks and references did you get? Serving S21 is just the start of a process that can be very long drawn- out. If she refuses to leave you cannot physically drag her out and change the locks on that date.You will then have to follow a series of legal processes,which can take time and cost you money.This is why you need to fully understand the implications if you decide to evict.If she is smoking weed bought for her own use in private, that is not really causing a public nuisance.To be fair,she does sound far from ideal, but anti-social neighbours are found in every street.   

The letting agent found her for us, and the tenants mother is her guarantor. I think we just want her out now, I want to sell the flat and not go down this path again.  I am just so worried about how it will all pan out.  If I serve the section 21 on 1st October with a leave date of the beginning of December, if she refuses to leave would my next step be a court hearing, and does she have to keep paying me the rent?  And if she doesn't can I request it from her guarantor?

Quote from: Dawson on September 07, 2023, 12:25:47 PMDoes this have a baring on my situation please.

There are angles, it depends on how you play things and the knowledge of your Tenant.

If you formally told the Tenant, now, that you were not renewing the tenancy after the fixed term... it may just be possible they decide to leave of their own accord on or before the last day and you're home free.

If they know anything at all, then that's rather unlikely. The truth is - if you end up serving a Section 21 and the Tenant doesn't want to go - it can be a long and expensive road, although ultimately successful.

To ram home a point well made, though... all the residents are complaining to you - but how do they even know to do that? The neighbours of all my let properties do not have my details. And for good reason. Once, some neighbours did approach me and sought my details directly from me... I point blank refused. In my world, what you describe here simply cannot come to pass.

I'm not in the social care business.

Honestly this is all the truth and they know my details because it is a small building with only 17 flats and we have a what's app group with our mobiles on show.

I think this post illustrates something that arises a lot on this forum.There is a tendency for some landlords and tenants to become fixated on "What the Law Says". The reality is that unless one is very rich and bored,when it comes down to it there is not much one can do if others refuse to abide by the rules.Yes,this tenant should keep paying the rent right up until she leaves or gets removed.Many do not however,and the fact that she needed a guarantor tells you there is no point trying to sue her for it.Likewise,the mother should cover her daughter's debt to you,but these agreements are notoriously hard to enforce. If this particular apple did not fall far from the tree then the mother may be equally unreliable.

What a great agent you had,it sounds like they just wanted to grab their commission and dump this on you.You are right,being a landlord is not right for you.I really hope you get the place back easily,sell up and put this nasty episode behind you.

Thank you so much 😊

Just thought I would give you an update and a huge thank you for all your messages, my tenant left 🙏

Great result! Are you still selling up?

Isn't that the greatest feeling ? Getting those keys back, they've gone!  Thanks for letting us know the outcome, and good luck with selling.