UK Landlord Forum / Life

After being granted Possession order 11th July 2023, our tenant has completed N244 Relief from Sanctions CPR 3.9

The court has already given a date Notice of Application Hearing, but it is 4 months time January 2024

Can we request it be brought forward, this Section 8 has been going on since January 2022

You probably can't ask for it to be brought forward, but you could ask a solicitor to make an application for the claim to be set aside as an abuse of process. That might be expensive, though. What the tenant is trying to do is to introduce a new defence once the claim has been decided, which they shouldn't be allowed to do. If there's a specific reason that they can use to justify it, it should be allowed - if they weren't aware of the date or location of the hearing because the court made an error in sending out the paperwork, for example. But they shouldn't be allowed to just have the same hearing again with a new defence they didn't use before.

Yes, 'amended Counterclaim', means they want to start from the begging of July 2022

HOW MUCH PLEASE to make an application for the claim to be set aside as an abuse of process.

WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED PLEASE, just in case we need someone to come to the 1 hour hearing in N9

Did the Judge have to set this hearing or could he have refused their application?
The timescales indicate he hates Landlords, but should we fear even worse.

if not you... can you ask a contact of yours, closest to N18 please

I think you are misunderstanding what this forum is about.Some who regularly comment may have a legal background,but we are mainly landlords ourselves,whose past experience may be useful to others.You really do need to hire the services of a specialist solicitor,or eviction experts.You can get names from the Law Society,or simply Google for the area you want.

Quote from: heavykarma on September 27, 2023, 03:12:13 PMI think you are misunderstanding what this forum is about.Some who regularly comment may have a legal background,but we are mainly landlords ourselves,whose past experience may be useful to others.You really do need to hire the services of a specialist solicitor,or eviction experts.You can get names from the Law Society,or simply Google for the area you want.

Yes, of course

Thanks for your input

Quote from: heavykarma on September 27, 2023, 03:12:13 PMI think you are misunderstanding what this forum is about.Some who regularly comment may have a legal background,but we are mainly landlords ourselves,whose past experience may be useful to others.You really do need to hire the services of a specialist solicitor,or eviction experts.You can get names from the Law Society,or simply Google for the area you want.

HK, I just noticed that your habit of not putting a space after punctuation characters doesn't play well with the updated forum software because full stops are regarded as the 'dots' in a URL, so your text contains clickable links, which of course lead nowhere.

Maybe we'll learn to love it but, IMO, it reduces the readability of your wise words.

You are not the first to mention this. Does it look better now?

Quote from: heavykarma on September 27, 2023, 09:10:11 PMYou are not the first to mention this. Does it look better now?

It does indeed.

And is more readable with spaces after punctuation.

Quote from: Lellylel on September 27, 2023, 11:52:33 AMWHERE ARE YOU LOCATED PLEASE, just in case we need someone to come to the 1 hour hearing in N9

I've got to be honest, this has given me a right old chuckle this morning. Even more than all these links HK has been sharing.

If you are happy I am happy. Actually, joking apart, I am thinking of taking up the request to give legal representation. I think I could blag my  way through it. Maybe we could all make a day of it and celebrate our victory at the best drinking hole in Edmonton ?

Quote from: heavykarma on September 27, 2023, 03:12:13 PMI think you are misunderstanding what this forum is about.Some who regularly comment may have a legal background,but we are mainly landlords ourselves,whose past experience may be useful to others.You really do need to hire the services of a specialist solicitor,or eviction experts.You can get names from the Law Society,or simply Google for the area you want.

Had hoped to get an idea of how an application is dealt with and
lots of legal people are on here, as we have received lots of direct marketing messages.

They were given 2 weeks to give a defence, approaching a year ago and one was never completed, so we never needed a Solicitor and since they were debarred from giving a defence months ago, I thought it was finally over.
Virtually no access for 2 years, 1.5 years unpaid, £22,000 in arrears increasing daily. Court wants 14 weeks to open an email/letter

I had hoped to get an idea of simply:
how one can RESPOND TO THIS APPLICATION to start again.
(Presume there is a standard way to react to an application)

It does not appear to give us an option to respond, just a hearing next year!

(If an Application based on 'Abuse of Process', an attack on the Judge, is the only option, I might have to do it/risk them hurting me as a Landlord, more)

(We are getting lots of legal spam from forums with members offering to fight a defence for us, from the tenant that cannot put one in yet, until she gets it started from the beginning again)

This is a horrible situation, and can only imagine the stress you are going through. I am getting the impression that you are trying to avoid legal fees, but this really is beyond something you can deal with.All the advice on here has been to get a solicitor fast.

Thank you.
Definitely need to use someone now, but a Solicitor to react, or a Barrister for hearing?
but absolutely desperate just to know how an application is dealt with by a Landlord. Just the next step, because we may not have one (or an attack on the judges directly for 'abuse' is the only way). This is a standard step, disheartened again, that it is such a mystery.
Will give up if I cannot find just that bit of info very soon and pay the big money being demanded.

You need to talk to a solicitor, or a number of possible solicitors. They'll normally agree a meeting or phone call that won't be charged for, to assess the case and to allow them to indicate the options that you have and the likely costs.

The tenants are using the extended time scales in the English court system currently to game the process and you need to investigate what can be done. I suspect that what they're doing isn't actually legal and would be thrown out if it gets to court, and they're just trying to delay things. I can't believe that the tenants can be represented by an actual solicitor either, because a solicitor shouldn't be involved in abusing the process in this way.

That is unless the tenants actually have a case (like being misled about the date of the original hearing), of which, so far, there is no evidence. They can't simply have the hearing rerun - even if they now claim a new or different defence.

I assume that you have used the  court address/phone details to request this be re-assessed, hopefully cancelled?  You will have to be patient, responses will not be fast, nor will they give you specific legal advice.The contact information should be on the papers you received.If making contact by either method you will need to include references and dates, and be concise and to the point.

 You really would be better off however heeding the advice from jpk, he is very savvy.   

 

   

No nothing yet, as been unsure how we're allowed to respond.

The Court will never take a call, you cannot reach them via the call center and want 14 weeks to read an email.

Apparantly we have to present a:
Witness statement in opposition to an application for relief from sanctions

Not sure how, but will seek help, now we know what appears to be next move. Just glad there might be a way to respond.

As for not being able to hasten the hearing date...
the idea that after being given 14 months by the slowness of the Court, they get another 3 months  from some Judge just by asking, is atrocious. That's before a minimum of 2 months on another last minute trick they can pull. Will be 2 years of living for free.

Losing faith.

Only rented out our family home of 50 years, to fund dealing with Dementia & pay mortgage. Should have left it empty.

A solicitor would be able to assist in writing the statement in opposition, because they'll know the form of words that are appropriate. There's a legal "code" in these statements and it's very easy for a non-legal person to mess up their case by using inappropriate arguments or phrases.

And I'm genuinely sorry to hear about all of the issues. The state of the courts is due to years of not spending the money needed to operate a modern legal system, and it's coming to a head. The delays have reached the point where miscarriages of justice are routine, simply caused by the time it takes to get an actual case to court.

I don't want to trivialise the issue, but it's not as if a tenant not paying rent and needing to be evicted is a complex legal issue. It's happened repeatedly for centuries and it's relatively simple - either rent is due or it's not and it's either paid or it's not. What the courts can do then is already decided and there aren't that many options. For a simple case to take 12 months, that imposes a massive burden on the landlord, rather than a manageable inconvenience in their business. It's enough to mean that being a landlord becomes hugely risky (particularly as mortgage costs are now higher).

And the effect on more serious court cases is more significant. If it takes 24 months for an assault or theft case to come to court, how many of the victims are simply going to move on and not want the issue to be part of their lives any more? Businesses are having huge problems prosecuting things like theft from shops or assaults in pubs, because the staff who are involved or are witnesses simply move on and aren't available as witnesses by the time the case is heard. So many people leave the police force that it's hard to prosecute their arrests if the case takes years to come to court.

Rant over.

It would be mad not to Rant & it will become even more necessary, as the years pass.

Thank you. We are looking for a Solicitor, who can specialise in writing a good 'Statement in Opposition', preferably one in North London, just in case they have to attend a hearing next year.
(Welcome a PM, from anyone fitting the bill or a recommendations, please)

God forbid they can hasten the distant date a little, for us!

As for the debacle... with serving Judges working for Left Wing pressure groups and imagining how typical Law Makers might think, I believe the whole mess is no mistake. They are 'at it'!