UK Landlord Forum / Life

There is a small leak from my 3rd floor flat down into flat below, dark stain on their ceiling. Got my plumber to visit the next morning once notified by owner below.

The plumber found that it was a leaking pipe behind the wall. And not from the sink tap or shower/bathtub inside the bathroom

Question is, is the leak since it is due to a pipe behind the wall and has been there since day 1 since it was built, – a shared cost/responsibility/maintenance – the responsibility of the Share of Freehold owners?  or mine, as it is on my floor. Though not inside my flat/bathroom.

I'm sure other Landlords have had a leak in their flat affecting the flat(s) below.

Any advice / thoughts appreciated

Quote from: Diversity on April 23, 2025, 08:41:08 AMQuestion is, is the leak since it is due to a pipe behind the wall

Your Lease should specify exactly where your responsibility extends to. Read it carefully.

Quote from: HandyMan on April 23, 2025, 12:01:56 PM

Quote from: Diversity on April 23, 2025, 08:41:08 AMQuestion is, is the leak since it is due to a pipe behind the wall

Your Lease should specify exactly where your responsibility extends to. Read it carefully.

Thank you for your reply. I have scanned and briefly read the old and antiquated lease. Difficult to understand, but my understanding is:

 "any conduits in the Building which do not serve the Flat exclusively"

...is the main clause. ie if it does not serve my flat exclusively, then it is shared.

I have emailed the plumber to ask if the leaking pipe is shared with any of the other flats

The flat owner below has requested I fix damage to her ceiling

Explain to the flat owner below that they will need to fix their own ceiling (unless you wish to pay this for them because you're a nice person who can afford it). Even if the pipes are yours, you're not liable until now.

Quote from: jpkeates on April 24, 2025, 04:21:37 AMEven if the pipes are yours, you're not liable until now.

@JPK  I'm not sure what you mean by "until now". Could you clarify please?

Yes. Until this point, there's no likelihood of a successful claim for negligence. Stuff happens with plumbing.

But now the owner's aware of it, they have a possible duty of care to resolve the issue in an effective and timely manner. Obviously, if it turns out it's not their issue at all and they're not their responsibility to fix, there's no issue are all. But, if they are their pipes, it would probably negligent not to take remedial action. So future damage might be the owner's responsibility.

Quote from: jpkeates on April 24, 2025, 04:21:37 AMExplain to the flat owner below that they will need to fix their own ceiling (unless you wish to pay this for them because you're a nice person who can afford it).

Don't quite follow. The flat owner below will say the leak came from my flat above

Could you pls clarify

It doesn't matter if the leak came from your property or not for the damage to date. You're not liable to the downstairs neighbour for the damage. It's just a random accident and you're only liable if you caused the leak or were negligent in some way. Plumbing doesn't require routine maintenance and, from time to time, plumbing leaks.

It is something that many people think that they understand but don't. The downstairs tenant should repair their damage (or make a claim on their insurance - it's usually something included - or excluded - from flat insurance, because, as you can imagine, it happens a lot.

Now that you know about the leak, you need to either fix it (if it's something you are responsible for) or report it to whoever is responsible for it. If it is your responsibility to repair, now you know about it, you could be liable going forwards, as not fixing it in a timely manner (or at all or properly), could be negligence.

Because so many people wrongly believe that the person upstairs is automatically liable this is something that often causes issues. So it helps to make sure that the person downstairs understands the correct position. They may need to a suggestion to contact their insurance company or take some legal advice so that they don't think you're just trying it on.

Quote from: jpkeates on April 24, 2025, 12:00:43 PMIt doesn't matter if the leak came from your property or not for the damage to date. You're not liable to the downstairs neighbour for the damage. It's just a random accident and you're only liable if you caused the leak or were negligent in some way. Plumbing doesn't require routine maintenance and, from time to time, plumbing leaks.

ok, I bet she will say it was a leaking pipe from my flat and it is my responsibility. Is there a legal link of reference I could use to show her that I'm not liable for fixing her ceiling?  Otherwise she will think I'm just being difficult and trying to skirt the cost

QuoteIt is something that many people think that they understand but don't. The downstairs tenant should repair their damage (or make a claim on their insurance - it's usually something included - or excluded - from flat insurance, because, as you can imagine, it happens a lot.

Do you mean contents insurance or buildings insurance?

QuoteNow that you know about the leak, you need to either fix it (if it's something you are responsible for) or report it to whoever is responsible for it. If it is your responsibility to repair, now you know about it, you could be liable going forwards, as not fixing it in a timely manner (or at all or properly), could be negligence.

Yes, I responded to her email within one hour of receiving it and emailed the plumber at the same time CC'ing her in. The plumber came the next morning to check. Apparently it leaked more that night and the plumber fixed the leak. I paid his invoice before checking it was my responsibility so the plumber doesn't have to wait

QuoteBecause so many people wrongly believe that the person upstairs is automatically liable this is something that often causes issues. So it helps to make sure that the person downstairs understands the correct position. They may need to a suggestion to contact their insurance company or take some legal advice so that they don't think you're just trying it on.

Is there a link or reference to this sort of situation, anything would be helpful to explain to her rather as a 3rd party independent source

Quote from: Diversity on April 24, 2025, 12:26:31 PMok, I bet she will say it was a leaking pipe from my flat and it is my responsibility. Is there a legal link of reference I could use to show her that I'm not liable for fixing her ceiling?  Otherwise she will think I'm just being difficult and trying to skirt the cost

She can google it. There's not a law or anything like that, because the law doesn't exist. That's the point.

QuoteDo you mean contents insurance or buildings insurance?

Both/Either.

QuoteYes, I responded to her email within one hour of receiving it and emailed the plumber at the same time CC'ing her in. The plumber came the next morning to check. Apparently it leaked more that night and the plumber fixed the leak. I paid his invoice before checking it was my responsibility so the plumber doesn't have to wait

QuoteIs there a link or reference to this sort of situation, anything would be helpful to explain to her rather as a 3rd party independent source

The simplest thing to do is to suggest that they speak to their insurance company, because they're not you!

Quote from: jpkeatesShe can google it. There's not a law or anything like that, because the law doesn't exist. That's the point.

QuoteBoth/Either.

QuoteYes, I responded to her email within one hour of receiving it and emailed the plumber at the same time CC'ing her in. The plumber came the next morning to check. Apparently it leaked more that night and the plumber fixed the leak. I paid his invoice before checking it was my responsibility so the plumber doesn't have to wait

QuoteThe simplest thing to do is to suggest that they speak to their insurance company, because they're not you!

Apologies for the delayed reply. I'll ask our buildings insurance broker what he thinks

I just wish there was a govt/insurance website that people can check or reference to avoid confusion and clear these matters up

I called the plumber to check as he is hopeless at responding to emails (I guess like most tradespeople), and he said the pipe fed only my flat bathroom (and not shared). So do you think it's still her responsibility to redecorate and paint her ceiling?