UK Landlord Forum / Life

I have recently purchased my very first flat, a BTL. It is rented out to a family with two young boys. Lovely and decent family. Since day one they keep receiving complaints from the downstairs neighbors who complain about hearing the footsteps of the children. Allegedly the children are running up and down and are using a scooter in the flat. They complain about the squeaky floor boards too. It is an attic flat with ordinary wooden floor.

Yesterday I had a one and a half hour long conversation with the lady from downstairs further to a letter I sent to them in order to investigate their noise problem. The bottom line of the conversation was that they think the children are making too much noise, they run up and down. They believe the children should be controlled and and they cannot get enough rest due to this. On the second day after they moved in the lady sent them a complaint letter (written at 9:35pm). Since then she came to complain about the children even at 10.30 in the morning. All together they believe children should not live there at all as there is a fire hazard.

I did speak to my tenants who are conscientiously discipline the kids and do not allow them to run around in the flat. The kids are only playing with a tiny plastic train set, as nursery aged kids would do, which is most probably interpreted by the downstairs neighbor as a racing game with a scooter. After the downstairs neighbour's explanation I expected a total mayhem, but actually all was nice and quiet, one kid watching a cartoon, the other one is playing with a small car with dad. We put down a carpet in the living room and the kids are now wearing specific homey shoes to reduce the impact of their footsteps. They usually do to bed around 9pm-ish and don't get up before 8am. They live a simple, normal life as you do with two kids.

My understanding is that the downstairs flat complains about the other flat next to me as well. Unfortunately even my tenants hear when the next door neighbours walk around in their flat, due to the moving floor boards. Clearly there is a structural problem with the attic flats which means that even the smallest step on the floor board gets amplified by the gap between the floor boards which makes a louder and deeper sound. On the other hand I believe the downstairs neighbour have a very special attitude. I understand that they do hear everything, but the problem is that even the smallest noise annoys them (e.g. closing the fire door) and they have a long history of complaining about various things. My tenants are doing their best but it feels like a mission impossible to live up to the downstairs people's expectations, who simply do not want anyone living there and have a strong feeling that they do not want any children at all.

Could you please advise me what to do? My tenants are doing their best to please the downstairs neighbors but they have the right for a decent stress free life when they do not feel that walking around the flat they rent will not result in another complaint letter from downstairs. As the lady from the downstairs flat was extremely angry, they threatened me to take me (and my tenants) to court due to antisocial behavior. In my reading what they complain about is general domestic noise. I would greatly appreciate your advice.

PS: I contacted the council, they reassured me the kids playing falls under domestic noise and if the  tenants feel harassed I can log a complaint about antisocial behaviour.
PPS: My tenants called me and they decide to move back home. They feel stressed out and they feel they always have to watch out as the issue will never be sorted with the downstairs people. The downstairs neighbours did a pretty good job in only two months..clearly it's partly the reason why the flat was sold!

Any advice??

Advice is simple - never ever, as a Landlord, get involved in a dispute between your Tenants and their neighbours.

You are not responsible for your Tenants.

Your Tenants are not your pets.

You are not a registered Carer or Guardian of your Tenants.

Think about this... if the property in question was owned by the Tenants, what would the neighbour do? What are they doing differently knowing that the property is let out? The answer is that they are going to the Landlord because they perceive that's some way of escalating the situation - telling on the Tenants. This would not be possible at all if the Tenants owned the property. They would have to follow proper channels, and this is exactly what they must do now.

Do not entertain any further communication with the neighbours of your Tenants. They have played you like a musical instrument.

I hope this advice helps you in the future.

P.S. - likewise, you do not get involved in the dispute from your Tenant's side... if the Tenants feel harassed, they can file a complaint. Not you on their behalf.

P.P.S. - if you think this all sounds wrong and you must live up to some kind of responsibilities as a Landlord, and create harmony in the world, this is above-and-beyond and this kind of approach will get many a Landlord into trouble. You must steadfastly refuse to get involved from either side.

Agree 100% with Hippo it's a thankless task mediating neighbour disputes as it is really not your role as a landlord. You would be surprised by the unreasonable approach that people adopt with an agent or landlord in the middle to act as a filter. Politely suggest they contact your tenants directly and come to an amicable solution.

I imagine it would be a soul destroying nightmare to live in a flat with bad acoustics from all directions. Even more torture if a young family move in above. And to compound it all, the floor finishes are wooden!

They must have suffered this problem for as long as they've lived there, and rather than move themselves, they've decided the best strategy is to complain to neighbours and neighbouring LLs in the hope they will do something about it.

It's not structural, it's acoustic. To properly resolve it would involve you lifting floor finishes and floorboards and fixing acoustic insulation between joists then refitting. How much would that cost? Maybe a few thousand, depending on the size of the flat and location. Whether that investment is worth considering is subject to the rent you receive and your desire to solve the problem, let your tenants live in peace, and appease their neighbours. It's a basebuild defect issue, but your tenants and neighbours are living with it.

Not your obligation to do anything about it, so you can just tell the neighbour the building is the building and to be thankful the kids aren't teenagers having raves, tantrums and rows. Also ask them to contact the LA if they want to make a complaint about noise in the future.

This is rather terrible advice. You tell the neighbour of your Tenants nothing. You advise them nothing. You ask them [to do] nothing. They are not your neighbours. You certainly don't get them talking to any Letting Agent you may, or may not, have employed (PickledJerk, or did you mean Local Authority, the Council?). Treat the above entry with complete disdain (except the Council bit I'm inferring). I cannot advise you any more, but the path outlined above will lead to a bad place.

My advice is fine. Not "terrible". Slightly dramatical term. But you're entitled to your opinion, and so am I. This is a forum.

Of course I meant Local Authority. I would advise anyone to speak to the LA regarding disturbance from nose. That is the correct advice.

Anyway, poster, I would advise you to ignore Hippo's advice to ignore what I say or risk terrible peril. It's very constructive to talk to people, especially good rent paying tenants. Although I think yours have left? If the same thing happens with the next tenants, hope you are able to resolve it.

You are in a minority of Landlords who feel it is a good idea to get involved in Tenant / neighbour disputes. It is an amateur's approach.

Regret to say that Hippo is absolutely right. Getting involved with complicate issues and it will suddenly likely to then be your responsibility (read fault).

I amateurishly got involved a few years ago between business premises I let and a flat (not directly) above. I even spent a couple of grand on noise insulation to try and help but all that's happened is the shop tenant now thinks I'm 'difficult' and the complainer thinks it's now all my responsibility. So my amateurish approach, trying to do the best for everyone, cost me about 7 months rent and * off the highest paying tenant in the building. Of course the complainer still isn't happy (as usual). What a result....

Just politely tell them to sort it out between themselves and if they can't, there's always officialdom.

Imagine that you live in a different country and are trying to sort the 'problem' out from there (i.e doing nothing) rather than pandering to a problem that you can't sort.