UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can advise. Been a landlord for 7 years and never had a problem until now. I'm about to issue my first section 21 through an estate agent due to a problematic tenant. The tenant will be issued this tomorrow. However, the agent rang them today to let them know this was going to happen. Should they give the tenant prior warning? Thank you for your help.

Quote from: Alchemist on October 24, 2024, 06:56:33 PMShould they give the tenant prior warning?

What exactly are you concerned about?

What difference will it make for the tenant to know that they are going to receive a Section 21 notice tomorrow - or to just receive it tomorrow?

The notice will be deemed served.
It will have a date on it by when you wish the tenant to leave.
When that date arrives they may leave - or they may choose to remain.

None of this will be affected by knowing a day in advance that you are about to serve notice.

The concern was that they might not pay the rent as it was due today. The notice was meant to be given today which is the date the new month starts. Anyway I'm still trying to find that out.

Why did you not simply wait an extra day or two before serving it? It won' t make any difference in the long run that they were told in advance,  but I am surprised that the agents did this,  rather odd.  Have you had any disputes with them?

Hi thank you for your responses. I didn't wait an extra day or two because I was advised that it should be served on the calender day their rent is due, which was today. Which was why I was surprised they had been informed it was going to be be served yesterday. I found it odd too. If you meant had I had any disputes with the agent the answer is no.

Thank you again.

You weren't well advised about the date for the notice. And I'm not sure that serving notice is always the best way to get a tenant to move on in all cases. It is the best or only option in some cases, but not all.

Thank you. I was beginning to wonder that. I have read several articles on section 21 but couldn't find in any of them that it had to be served on a specific date. I have never served one before, so took the advise, as felt the agents should know more than me.

By the way I did try and compromise with the tenant but they got demanding trying to rewrite the contract and refusing to pay an increase and ignoring contacts . The rent they pay is way below market value. I felt I had no option

If the tenancy is periodic, increase the rent with a section 13 notice.

Thank you. He was on short term assured 6 month tenancy,but that finished today.  He has been in the property 3 years. I guess from tomorrow he will be on a periodic contract, on the old contract as the new one with the increase has not been signed. He was informed of the increase 2 months ago when his current tenancy ends. So gave plenty of notice.

A section 13 notice is a formal process that increases the rent automatically. The tenant doesn't have to agree, but can appeal to a tribunal if the new rent is excessive.

That rarely happens (the new rent is rarely more than market rate and the amount of the increase itself doesn't matter).

This is what happens when you use an Agent rather than a Lawyer.

There are so many prerequisites for a Section 21, but the nonsense about it having to be served on a specific day have been gone for years.  These days you just make sure that you give at least 61 days on the notice.

S13 on the other hand has requirements for the increase to take effect from a rent anniversary with specific notice.

After 7 years you should have made yourself familiar with the key legislation, the different eviction methods, the forms and notes for enforcement of those eviction methods, the defence forms and notes for same.

If you Agent is still under the misconception that an S21 requires anniversary service then it is highly likely that they could be using old versions of the S21 forms which can be voided.


You can bet that the Agent's terms will say that they are not liable for screwing up eviction.

Agents who issues 6 month tenancies for 3 years are just looking to bleed you or the Tenant for a fee, as they are living in the past they may be making other charges to the Tenant which are a breach of the Tenant Fees Act (2019).

If they screwed up the Deposit Protection and the service of the Prescribed Information of the original deposit then there is potential for between 1x and 3x the deposit sanction for EACH Tenancy, plus one for the SPT that was created.

If you increase the Rent in this SPT period then they will be deemed to have accepted it if they pay it, if they continue to pay the old rent and ask the FTT to review the increase then they will owe you the difference if the FTT approve your increase.

It sounds as if you have been quite reasonable.

When you look at an article check the day it was posted, the law changes all the time, the Section 21 flowchart has been updated to reflect the minefield locations.

Quote from: Alchemist on October 25, 2024, 05:09:45 PMThank you. I was beginning to wonder that. I have read several articles on section 21 but couldn't find in any of them that it had to be served on a specific date. I have never served one before, so took the advise, as felt the agents should know more than me.

By the way I did try and compromise with the tenant but they got demanding trying to rewrite the contract and refusing to pay an increase and ignoring contacts . The rent they pay is way below market value. I felt I had no option

Thank you so much that has all been really useful and given me food for thought and things to check with the agent. Thank you once again

Did you get your rent paid?  You are not the first landlord to assume that the agent knows more than you do!   

I did get the rent paid but at the previous rate, so he hasn't accepted the rise. By the way he did say he was going to accept this on the 11th October. But then hasn't signed the contract or paid the higher rent . We really have been played around by him. My agent had emailed him earlier in the month and asked him what he would like to do and if he could answer by the 11th October . He waited until 9.00am on the 11th to give his answer. We let him know back in August there was going to be a rise.

So I now have 2 months I guess to see how it is going to play out. Thank you for checking in with me.

Quote from: Alchemist on October 27, 2024, 10:27:47 AMSo I now have 2 months I guess to see how it is going to play out.

At least?

I hope you don't mind me asking a further question. Apologies if I should have started a new topic but thought it was useful to have the context.

The question is: Beacause my agent had emailed a copy of the new tenancy agreement with the rent rise to the tenant and then they answered by email on the 11th of October that they would agree to it. (Although at this point they hadn't yet signed it) Is that at all legally binding?

If it is legally binding are they now partially in arrears?

Many thanks

Their agreement isn't binding until they pay the new rent for the first time.

Technically, they've made an agreement with you to pay a new rent, and they've probably breached the agreement and you can claim compensation for any loss arising as a result of that breach. But not receiving a higher rent isn't an actual loss.

So it's not legally binding in the sense that their arrears are based on the higher rent amount, no.

You use a s13 notice to achieve that.

OK thank you. since I
Started this thread I've been doing my research and I think I'm in for a battle. Seems I am also on a learning curve regarding agents.

Much appreciated

Just remember it is a game, you do all in your power to get them to leave in the shortest possible time and they try to extend matters with every trick in the book.

I did say in my previous reply "they will be deemed to have accepted it if they pay it"

Quote from: Alchemist on October 30, 2024, 03:31:35 PMOK thank you. since I
Started this thread I've been doing my research and I think I'm in for a battle. Seems I am also on a learning curve regarding agents.

Much appreciated

Thank you David I'm getting prepared and keeping records of everything. It's a shame I've had a good relationship with the tenant for 3 years but a year ago their partner moved in (without permission). The agent must have noticed and suggested I put them on the tenancy as a permitted tenant who had no rights so to speak and had to leave when the tenant did.

 (THIS WON'T BE HAPPENING EVER AGAIN LESSON LEARNT)

Let's just say I think this person knows their way around the system.

They did recently ask if they could jointly go on the tenancy agreement which was this current contract but it was never signed.

Big learning curve as I mentioned earlier.

Really valuing all the comments and learning a lot from the other posts, so thank you.

I hope they're a permitted occupant, not a permitted tenant, because that would be a bad thing to have happened.

Unfortunately a permitted tenant. I have been reading up on this and noticed the wording was different.

Like I say it has been a learning curve on agents. Sigh

Hi,

An update on my situation and any of your valuable advice welcome.

I am half way through my section 21 notice. The last payment of rent was due on 25th November but wasn't paid. The tenant contacted the estate agent 2 days ago to say they are moving out on the 4th December will they come down to do meter readings.

It's great news they are going and I believe I can take the last month rent from the bond. They haven't asked to surrender the tenancy early or given notice other than 6 days.

My question is once they have given back the keys am I allowed to go back in the property until the section 21 notice expires if we take the rent from the bond?

Obviously I need my insurer to know the property will be empty from the 4th December and ideally I will need to put the heating on low at this time of year to prevent burst pipes .

I also received a letter from the council today saying I need to pay council tax from 25th November. The tenant has clearly contacted them and told them this. The section 21 notice doesn't expire until 27th December.

Any advice is most welcome. Thank you

If they hand the keys back, contact them to confirm that you accept the tenancy has ended because they have surrendered. That should be OK.

Thank you so much for your advice jpkeates much appreciated.

You wanted them out and they are out, take the win.

I would not hold out much hope of getting more than the nine days rent between the due date and the departure date, you issued the notice to quit.

If you want damages make sure you provide a proper inspection and inventory with the Tenant given the option to attend and then give them the option to mitigate their loss by restoring the property to the same state it was let.

You can ask the Council to issue proper bill from the day they actually leave, after that you are culpable for any void.

The fact that they are surrendering to an Agent helps but always confirm it before they do it by sending an email confirming you will accept their surrender of the property and suggest days for a final inspection.

Quote from: Alchemist on November 28, 2024, 07:49:50 PMHi,

An update on my situation and any of your valuable advice welcome.

I am half way through my section 21 notice. The last payment of rent was due on 25th November but wasn't paid. The tenant contacted the estate agent 2 days ago to say they are moving out on the 4th December will they come down to do meter readings.

It's great news they are going and I believe I can take the last month rent from the bond. They haven't asked to surrender the tenancy early or given notice other than 6 days.

My question is once they have given back the keys am I allowed to go back in the property until the section 21 notice expires if we take the rent from the bond?

Obviously I need my insurer to know the property will be empty from the 4th December and ideally I will need to put the heating on low at this time of year to prevent burst pipes .

I also received a letter from the council today saying I need to pay council tax from 25th November. The tenant has clearly contacted them and told them this. The section 21 notice doesn't expire until 27th December.

Any advice is most welcome. Thank you

Hi David,

You are right I had come to that decision and I am pleased I don't have to go through the court process.

I have sent an email to that effect. They have caused so much tension I will be glad for the tenancy to end.

I have found out they actually moved out on 22nd November without informing us, but have kept the keys to move out on their terms. They are just very awkward.

The insurance company does of course now know it's unoccupied

But yes I am grateful for the win .