UK Landlord Forum / Life

I've discovered that after you have found a tenant, it is no longer a simple case of getting a contract signed & deposit paid. The amount of paperwork required by the UK government is overwhelming nowadays, for both tenant & landlord. Is there a service that landlords who already have found a tenant can pay a one-off fee to create the tenancy & sort out all the documents without advertising or monthly fee? I have done hundreds of hours of reading & searching but the only services I've found either insist on advertising (which I don't want or need), or charge a monthly fee for management (which I don't need). Thanks

I only use an agent for finding the tenant and doing all the setting-up including issuing documents  and protecting deposit.I pay a one-off fee.All LA's have the same service available. I am sure that as long as you are prepared to pay the usual full fee you can easily get this done. 

Quote from: bobsmith on December 18, 2022, 01:39:18 PM
Is there a service that landlords who already have found a tenant can pay a one-off fee to create the tenancy & sort out all the documents without advertising or monthly fee?

I use OpenRent for advertising and tenancy creation:

https://www.openrent.co.uk/landlords-advertise-property-for-rent-on-rightmove-and-zoopla
https://www.openrent.co.uk/rent-now

but tenancy creation doesn't require that you advertise first. See https://help.openrent.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/360016495752-Can-I-use-Rent-Now-without-advertising-

Quote from: bobsmith on December 18, 2022, 01:39:18 PMThe amount of paperwork required by the UK government is overwhelming nowadays, for both tenant & landlord.

Have you actually broken this down? It's generally not that onerous.

There are some big ones - like Deposit Protection - but I would advise you don't have someone else do this on your behalf anyway.

Sure, there are Right to Rent checks... but this is easy.

A lot of other things aren't exactly new... like, you should have a Gas Safety Certificate... but that's been true for ages. Some things are quite new, but - again - I would stress they aren't that onerous if broken down into small chunks.

On the Tenant side... what are you thinking about that counts as overwhelming? If things like a Credit Check - well, they're not required (by any Government agency) but are solely there to give you peace of mind. Skip them if you want. If you've decided to take the Tenant what use are they? What else are you thinking is overwhelming for the Tenant that you think could be ameliorated through a paid-for service?

Quote from: Hippogriff on December 19, 2022, 10:08:43 AM
Have you actually broken this down?
It's generally not that onerous.

I was wondering this too. Especially as the OP wrote: "I have done hundreds of hours of reading & searching..."

A hundred hours implies reading non-stop for a solid 8 hours a day for over 12 days!  Really?

Just a couple of hours focussed research gives a sufficient understanding of tenancy creation, deposit protection, and landlord & tenant responsibilities.

There's always more to learn, of course, but if the OP truly believes that the "amount of paperwork required by the UK government is overwhelming nowadays" then maybe landlording, or at least self-management, is not the best option for them.

The government produces a template tenancy agreement which has a pretty good checklist of what needs to given to a tenant at the start of the tenancy. I don't think I'd trust anyone who agreed to do this for a one off fee - because what are you meant to do years later when you find out they missed something out? If you don't know what needs doing how would you know everything had been done?

And I have to echo the sentiment expressed by some other posters. If you think this is "overwhelming" are you sure this is an activity you should be getting involved with - starting a tenancy is pretty straightforward compared to, say, ending one or dealing with something that goes seriously wrong.

I've just let a property in England for the first time and in a long time so bought myself up to speed. I used open rent for the referncing, only £20. The tenant found it quite onerous and tricky but as a LL expected they'd just gather easily accessible info and report back, which they did and I was happy with the results. They also completed a  right to rent check which was new territory being a Welsh landlord. Apart fro that I got the tenant to sign a tenancy commencement document that I created that confirmed working smoke/CO2 alarms, deposit information provided, GSC provided, Elec cert provided, inventory etc etc it worked out well and not too onerous.

Quote from: Hippogriff on December 19, 2022, 10:08:43 AM

Quote from: bobsmith on December 18, 2022, 01:39:18 PMThe amount of paperwork required by the UK government is overwhelming nowadays, for both tenant & landlord.

Have you actually broken this down? It's generally not that onerous.

There are some big ones - like Deposit Protection - but I would advise you don't have someone else do this on your behalf anyway.

Sure, there are Right to Rent checks... but this is easy.

A lot of other things aren't exactly new... like, you should have a Gas Safety Certificate... but that's been true for ages. Some things are quite new, but - again - I would stress they aren't that onerous if broken down into small chunks.

On the Tenant side... what are you thinking about that counts as overwhelming? If things like a Credit Check - well, they're not required (by any Government agency) but are solely there to give you peace of mind. Skip them if you want. If you've decided to take the Tenant what use are they? What else are you thinking is overwhelming for the Tenant that you think could be ameliorated through a paid-for service?

If you think that's all that is needed I suggest you do some more research. There's a government 'how to rent' booklet that you must provide by law as one example that you forgot on your list. Without providing that, you forgoe your right to serve notice. There is also the deposit protection scheme specific info that you must provide- if for example you protect it, but forget to provide a list of the specific info to the tenant until 1 day after 1 month into the tenancy, you could end up being fined £6,000- which goes directly to the tenant, so in other words, they're minded to try to catch you out on things.

I have not found anywhere with a concise list but the more research I do, the more things I discover, and it's usually anti-landlord. I've done hundreds of hours of research but am still discovering new things and laws that keep changing all the time, so it's pretty overwhelming for someone with a full time job. I thought about setting up a website ' togivetotenants.co.uk ' to provide a concise list of documents to give to tenants to make yourself legal as a landlord, but I simply don't have the time to undertake an unpaid venture.

Quote from: jpkeates on December 19, 2022, 01:09:00 PM
The government produces a template tenancy agreement which has a pretty good checklist of what needs to given to a tenant at the start of the tenancy. I don't think I'd trust anyone who agreed to do this for a one off fee

And I have to echo the sentiment expressed by some other posters. If you think this is "overwhelming" are you sure this is an activity you should be getting involved with - starting a tenancy is pretty straightforward compared to, say, ending one or dealing with something that goes seriously wrong.

I disagree with both your sentiments here. Open Rent (the website) was recommended/mentioned by a poster above you, and they charge a one-off fee. The idea that you can't trust anyone suggests no one should use an agent, which is a non-starter for many landlords.

Am I sure I want to be getting involved in it? No, like many other accidental landlords, not all of us have a choice.

Quote from: Riptide on December 19, 2022, 11:46:38 PM
I've just let a property in England for the first time and in a long time so bought myself up to speed. I used open rent for the referncing, only £20. The tenant found it quite onerous and tricky but as a LL expected they'd just gather easily accessible info and report back, which they did and I was happy with the results. They also completed a  right to rent check which was new territory being a Welsh landlord. Apart fro that I got the tenant to sign a tenancy commencement document that I created that confirmed working smoke/CO2 alarms, deposit information provided, GSC provided, Elec cert provided, inventory etc etc it worked out well and not too onerous.

Thanks for posting your experience. The problem with an onerous experience for tenants is that you run the risk of losing them before they sign. I know many tenants who simlpy don't have the time to go through countless documents. For example, I know a lettings agent who used to send out 22 page tenancy contracts with masses of small print not to mention everything else. Regarding your list, you forgot to provide the 'how to rent' booklet which is a legal requirement if you'd like to retain your right to serve notice on a non-paying tenant, and I'm not sure if you're supposed to get the inventory done by a third party or not. You can't just use common sense- it requires research.

So far all tenants I've found mentioned they were overwhelmed by the amount of documents to read through & ended up not signing.

I decided to go with open rent this time, at least that way I can sympathise with the tenant when they complain about the amount of documents to read and say "I know, I'm sorry- that's handled by open rent." & will hope for the best.

Quote from: bobsmith on December 20, 2022, 01:28:02 AM

Quote from: Riptide on December 19, 2022, 11:46:38 PM
I've just let a property in England for the first time and in a long time so bought myself up to speed. I used open rent for the referncing, only £20. The tenant found it quite onerous and tricky but as a LL expected they'd just gather easily accessible info and report back, which they did and I was happy with the results. They also completed a  right to rent check which was new territory being a Welsh landlord. Apart fro that I got the tenant to sign a tenancy commencement document that I created that confirmed working smoke/CO2 alarms, deposit information provided, GSC provided, Elec cert provided, inventory etc etc it worked out well and not too onerous.

Thanks for posting your experience. The problem with an onerous experience for tenants is that you run the risk of losing them before they sign. I know many tenants who simlpy don't have the time to go through countless documents. For example, I know a lettings agent who used to send out 22 page tenancy contracts with masses of small print not to mention everything else. Regarding your list, you forgot to provide the 'how to rent' booklet which is a legal requirement if you'd like to retain your right to serve notice on a non-paying tenant, and I'm not sure if you're supposed to get the inventory done by a third party or not. You can't just use common sense- it requires research.

So far all tenants I've found mentioned they were overwhelmed by the amount of documents to read through & ended up not signing. Some didn't even respond after seeing all the documents.

I decided to go with open rent this time, at least that way I can sympathise with the tenant when they complain about the amount of documents to read and say "I know, I'm sorry- that's handled by open rent." & will hope for the best.

Quote from: jpkeates on December 19, 2022, 01:09:00 PM
The government produces a template tenancy agreement which has a pretty good checklist of what needs to given

The government are very one-sided against landlords so I think it's better to trust a landlord association template rather than that- gov assumes all landlords are rich & relaxing on a beach somewhere, which isn't the case, but even the government template is extremely long! It's off-putting for tenants.

Can you link to the checklist mentioned? I believe I've seen it & it was incomplete- there were things missing. Unfortunatey, while they have things missing from their checklist, the law states "ignorance is no excuse" & a court would not care if you linked to their page citing the checklist. This is why you need to be thorough in your research.

Quote from: bobsmith on December 20, 2022, 01:19:06 AMIf you think that's all that is needed I suggest you do some more research. There's a government 'how to rent' booklet that you must provide by law as one example that you forgot on your list.

I hadn't made you a 'list', or even tried to, you numptie.

I've been doing this gig for a very long time and I've always done things by the book... I'm not here to spoon-feed you all the answers, as you clearly thought, but to just tell you (reassure you) that it's - empirically speaking - not as overwhelming as you think... and assert. But, then, maybe normal life is overwhelming for you?

I love that you're now informing this group of experienced Landlords about how important it is to protect the Deposit (and serve PI) correctly... you really are wet behind the ears it seems. I get it now.

But... you already have wasted hundreds of hours of research.. yes, wasted, because, even though you've done all that research, you now want to hand the job over to someone else (which is the worst path you could take at this juncture). You state you don't have the time - but you obviously do. What has happened here is that you have become frightened of negative possibilities - no matter how remote the chance of them actually arising is. Yes, we have dealt here with Landlords on the end of a Deposit protection claim... some claim ignorance, some knew the risk they were taking... but the simple fact is - it is easy to fulfil your obligations - there are no "gotchas" if you just follow the instructions of the Scheme you choose... in a perfect world, everything is done correctly and there is not even the possibility of a claim arising. It is only lazy, incompetent (catch-all for ignorant) or lawless Landlords who get caught-out.

Remember, please - any Agent of any description you find will not care about your business as much as you [should].

Last thing - my experience tells me there are no accidental Landlords. People who aren't interested in the job say this to absolve themselves of effort. There is always a choice to be made. What I always worry about is that a Landlord of this type won't provide a good service to their Tenants, their Customers. Because they consider themselves an accidental Landlord, and have paid employment, they already start off relatively disinterested... lowering the reputation, further, of the Landlord population. This attempt, here, at palming-off the work to another party meets expectations, it really does.

Quote from: bobsmith on December 20, 2022, 01:33:12 AMSo far all tenants I've found mentioned they were overwhelmed by the amount of documents to read through & ended up not signing. Some didn't even respond after seeing all the documents.

You have clearly been doing something wrong... what that is, I cannot state for a fact... but this sentence does not describe a typical rent engagement, at all... and I think many of us here can attest to that.

Yes, there are things to do... but I would never consider them overwhelming. If you have a fully furnished property with loads of tat in it, the Schedule and Inventory of Condition can, indeed, be onerous. I stay away from furnished now, but even if it's required - it's a one-time effort that you then make changes to as times change... and, yes, you can employ a third party for that task.

@BOBSMITH you are a Moaning Minnie; a peevish complainer.

You came here for advice and now you are slagging off people who have been landlords for years and who took the time to respond to your question.

Keep digging; you haven't reached the bottom yet.

It'll be fun to have you around here.

xx

With regard to using an agent,it is indeed something to do with caution.The one I have used for a few years now came highly recommended.At the time I had a vacant property,but I also had a lot on my plate. I know a lot of landlords happily flout the law,but others have slipped up once and been punished. I did not want my distractions at the time to let me down.The agent is well-known in this small town,the fee is very modest,he is scrupulous in his work,so I have carried on using him to do the bit that I don't like.
I can't say I have ever heard of a tenant refusing to sign because there was too much stuff to read through.I have had some awful agents over the years,which I why I manage the properties myself.If I became unable or unwilling to do that.I would trust this guy to do that part too.

Quote from: bobsmith on December 20, 2022, 01:41:20 AMThe government are very one-sided against landlords so I think it's better to trust a landlord association template rather than that- gov assumes all landlords are rich & relaxing on a beach somewhere, which isn't the case, but even the government template is extremely long! It's off-putting for tenants.

First of all I wasn't suggesting using the agreement itself, although it is very good.
I'd definitely use it over some of the versions produced by other people.

QuoteCan you link to the checklist mentioned? I believe I've seen it & it was incomplete- there were things missing. Unfortunatey, while they have things missing from their checklist, the law states "ignorance is no excuse" & a court would not care if you linked to their page citing the checklist. This is why you need to be thorough in your research.

I'd be interested in what you think is missing.
And I (slightly) resent the notion that I might not be thorough in my research - coming and asking for advice and then criticising the people offering it isn't the best way of getting people to respond.

Quote from: bobsmith on December 20, 2022, 01:28:02 AM

Quote from: Riptide on December 19, 2022, 11:46:38 PM
I've just let a property in England for the first time and in a long time so bought myself up to speed. I used open rent for the referncing, only £20. The tenant found it quite onerous and tricky but as a LL expected they'd just gather easily accessible info and report back, which they did and I was happy with the results. They also completed a  right to rent check which was new territory being a Welsh landlord. Apart fro that I got the tenant to sign a tenancy commencement document that I created that confirmed working smoke/CO2 alarms, deposit information provided, GSC provided, Elec cert provided, inventory etc etc it worked out well and not too onerous.

Thanks for posting your experience. The problem with an onerous experience for tenants is that you run the risk of losing them before they sign. I know many tenants who simlpy don't have the time to go through countless documents. For example, I know a lettings agent who used to send out 22 page tenancy contracts with masses of small print not to mention everything else. Regarding your list, you forgot to provide the 'how to rent' booklet which is a legal requirement if you'd like to retain your right to serve notice on a non-paying tenant, and I'm not sure if you're supposed to get the inventory done by a third party or not. You can't just use common sense- it requires research.

So far all tenants I've found mentioned they were overwhelmed by the amount of documents to read through & ended up not signing.

I decided to go with open rent this time, at least that way I can sympathise with the tenant when they complain about the amount of documents to read and say "I know, I'm sorry- that's handled by open rent." & will hope for the best.

Thanks for pulling me up on what I didn't provide, however the list I provided was not exhaustive by any means and the How to Rent booklet with other things was included in the etc etc.

This isn't my first rodeo by a long way and as Hippo has everything has been done to the book.