UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hello all,

My first time posting on this or any other blog, I hoped that I might be able to seek some help from anyone more experienced in these areas.

I manage a tenanted flat for my parents and we have decided as a family that it is time to sell and move on from rental.

The flat has been tenanted by one person since 2012, the local council sourced the tenant and provided tenancy documentation and a deposit agreement. Aside from that, the relationship is a direct one between the tenant and us. We've had an excellent relationship with the tenant over the last 8 years.

Earlier this year we served a section 21 (in person) on the tenant to facilitate the sale. They appeared happy to comply etc. We marketed the property, the tenant facilitated photos and we arranged an open-house viewing. We had to cancel the viewing however as we were unable to get hold of the tenant.

Then along came Covid-19.

With the backdrop of the pandemic we decided it was best to rethink the sale, whilst also offering a new tenancy agreement to the tenant if they wanted it. This made sense on 2 counts:

1) It provided an option of security to the tenant in these uncertain times
2) The agreement had been rolling on a periodic tenancy for 7 years at the same rent and we thought it reasonable to bring the rent up to current LHA rates at the same time within a new agreement.

The tenant confirmed they were happy with this proposition and we asked the council to prepare a new tenancy agreement.
A couple of weeks later we were alerted to a confrontation between the tenant and a neighbouring flat, likely related to repeated noise complaints. An assault occurred (to our tenant) and the police were called. I cannot vouch for who did what and who is to blame - but obviously a very stressful time for our tenant.

The tenant feels they cannot live there any more as they feel unsafe. They have indicated they wish to end the tenancy, but they wouldn't respond to a request for a leaving date. The complication for them as I see it that the council will not rehouse them if they voluntarily end the tenancy. The tenant, I sense, would prefer it now if we evicted her so that she is in a better position to find a new place. The issue I see there is we would then have the cost of going to court for an eviction order - and I don't see why we should have to do that.

So...... we want what is best for the tenant and support them as much as we can but we also have to think about our own interests. I'd appreciate your views on the following:

1) If we want the tenant to sign a new tenancy agreement - are they obligated to do so or are they entitled to just carry on with the current periodic tenancy at the 7 year old rent rate?

2) What are our rights if we chose to go back down the sec 21 route? From what the tenant has told us previously, the council won't entertain re-housing until a baliff turns up to the front door with a court order to remove them. To me, this is wrong - both for the tenant in terms of uncertainty and stress - and for the landlord in terms of cost. Surely a council can't advocate the approach of 'we do nothing until the landlord has gone to the cost and effort of enforcing the sec 21 through a court order' - i.e. if you leave before the baliffs arrive then you don't go back on the housing list.

Any thoughts you have would be great - thanks in advance.

You say you all decided to rethink the sale in the light of Covid.Did you envisage just putting things on hold for the duration of the problem,or were you going to carry on letting it longterm? If the latter,then I think it is up to the tenant to be realistic about what can be achieved.They can't just dump this problem on you,and then go silent.If the assault resulted in criminal charges,then the council may be more sympathetic regarding rehousing them.It is up to them to approach the council. If,as is often the case,it was just a bit of pushing and swearing,the tenant may come to realise that they may as well stay put for now.Spats between neighbours are commonplace. Given the  expected fall in house prices,this is not a good time for you to sell either.

I don't know if you would be able to add 7 years of rent increase in one move by the way. You should have made small increases every couple of years or so.
Councils can,and do,wait until the bailiffs arrive before rehousing tenants. Good Luck!

Thanks HEAVYKARMA, yes, we had envisaged just putting it off sale until the market is more certain - whenever that might be. So if they chose to stay put where would I stand with wanting to draw up a new agreement (regardless of any rent increase)? Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I have always gone onto periodic tenancies if tenants stay on.It is generally considered the sensible thing for landlord and tenant.Is there some reason why you feel you need to do this? You mention giving the tenant some security,but you want rid of them eventually and this will tie you down.I would just carry on as you are,and watch the trends locally.You can ask the tenant/council to sign a new agreement,but it sounds as if you did that anyway.Did they refuse?

Quote from: Faber123 on June 19, 2020, 03:21:23 PMThanks HEAVYKARMA, yes, we had envisaged just putting it off sale until the market is more certain - whenever that might be. So if they chose to stay put where would I stand with wanting to draw up a new agreement (regardless of any rent increase)? Thanks for taking the time to reply.

You cannot oblige a current Tenant to sign a new agreement. If they're happy with the current - regardless of rent increase, or not - but you want a new one then they don't to sign it.

Isn't your bigger problem, though, that the actual Tenant wants to leave now?

For them a new tenancy would introduce a new fixed term... and this seems like something they do not desire right now?

I personally would leave it on SPT... not serve any Section 21 etc. and sit back and wait... I'd try to introduce a reasonable rent increase, but via agreement... if the Tenant takes it, great, if not... no great shakes as it's not a major money-maker for you and you want to get rid of it anyway.

Thanks again heavykarma and Hippogriff, That's helped clarify things for me further. Apols for the late response also.

In answer to your questions:

I'm fine with the periodic tenancy. They haven't refused the new one as such, but it's obvious they want out of the property, but feel perhaps backed into a corner with the council and their onward housing eligibility. My thinking was that if we were going to stick with rental in the medium to short term and there is a degree of uncertainty with covid then why not bring the rent up in line with the current LHA rate, which would be approx 20% above the current rental income - the council said we can only effect this with a new tenancy agreement. On balance, we would rather just keep things uncomplicated and let them run their natural course. The uncertainty has been introduced by tenant saying they wish to leave, but they are are hesitant to name a date because I guess they know that leaving voluntarily puts then in worse position.

I understand that the council is asking the tenant to prepare a report on the current issues they are faced with so that they can assess their needs and I guess see if they can be re-housed, so as you say perhaps best to sit and wait. A rent increase is not a deciding factor for us at all - but rental income ceasing would be an issue longer term unless the market supported a sale. The market issue is complicated a little more by the fact that the property sits over commercial so potentially trickier in terms of mortgage options.

Thanks again for all your help

Hello all,

I'm just resurrecting this post in the hope that you can give me some practical advice on next steps.

Things with my tenant have not improved a great deal. She obviously finds herself between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the flat and the council in terms of re-housing. She states she has had to move out to a friends as she cannot stay in the flat after the altercation with the noisy upstairs family and the adverse impact upon her and her young family. This has been further complicated by the commercial premises below our flat complaining of a leak over the past week. After informing the tenant that I wished to enter the flat to deal with what was an emergency leak I discovered the flat had been vacated so some time (even if this is temporary and that the waste pipe serving both flats had become blocked outside our flat. This meant that any waste water coming down from the flat above had 'backed up' into ours, had filled both the sink and the washing machine in our flat and ruptured the washing machine waste therefore water was all over the floor and entering the commercial premises below. The flat smelt pretty awful due to the drainage issue. The waste has now been disconnected and the source of the issue temporarily addressed. The building is managed by an agent on behalf of the building freeholder, who alerted me to the leak. I have informed them of this blocked outside drainage issue - which I believe will be their responsibility to now resolve permanently (I need to check the lease on this one). There will likely be cosmetic damage to the flat that I will need to either meet the cost of or claim on if possible.

I now want to repossess the flat as per my original plan pre-Covid. It's obvious that this is also the preferred route for the tenant given their situation with the council, so there will be no resistance there - in fact the tenant has been very open about that with me. Yes, I could just let the tenant sort the issue themselves i.e. plead with the council to be re-housed whilst moving back into the flat etc, but I want to wipe the slate clean and move on from the property. Of course I realise that the sale market is less than ideal etc, plus I may have issues with upstairs tenants to deal with, but on balance a sale is what I originally intended and I now want to move toward that.

The advice I am initially after relates to the Section 21:

1) I served the original Sec 21 (form 6a) in early Feb 2020 - is this still valid?
2) If it is valid, but the original notice date has passed (April 2020), can this be amended to reflect a new notice date?
3) If the above do not apply, do I have to serve a new notice, can I do this immediately and considering current Covid associated regs/legisaltion CAN I actually do this and what has changed in terms of notice periods etc?
4) I now understand that the council, albeit unofficially, will not support the tenant until the baliffs arrive to evict. Therefore it looks like I will need to go to court to enforce a notice. Do you have any idea of costs here and am I likely to get resistance from a court to enforce?

A lot of questions - sorry! I appreciate that there is a lot to consider but I'm really after the most frictionless route to regain possession - especially given that the tenant in fact wants the same thing and would support this process.

I would really appreciate any help you all can offer.

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
1) I served the original Sec 21 (form 6a) in early Feb 2020 - is this still valid?

If it was valid in the first place, then validity runs to six months from service, so you have a few days/weeks left.

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
2) If it is valid, but the original notice date has passed (April 2020), can this be amended to reflect a new notice date?

No, and err what, why? I don't understand, what new notice date?

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
3) If the above do not apply, do I have to serve a new notice, can I do this immediately and considering current Covid associated regs/legisaltion CAN I actually do this and what has changed in terms of notice periods etc?

Yes, the minimum notice period was extended from at least two to at least three months.

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
4) I now understand that the council, albeit unofficially, will not support the tenant until the baliffs arrive to evict. Therefore it looks like I will need to go to court to enforce a notice. Do you have any idea of costs here and am I likely to get resistance from a court to enforce?

£355 issue fee for court claim, you can ask the court to award you the cost of the claim against the tenant. £121 fee for a warrant for possession if the tenant don't leave after the order for possession.

Possession claims are currently all stayed until 23 August due to Covid-19. You can, an unless you want to serve a new s21 notice have to, issue the claim before that, it'll just get stayed. You'll have to serve a "reactivation notice" setting out "what knowledge that party has as to the effect of the Coronavirus pandemic on the Defendant and their dependants" after 23 August to get the stay lifted. That's new due to Covid, no one have done it before so no really useful advice that one can give.

Thanks for getting back to me and for the info KTC,

I've answered some of your points in the quotes below (I hope that my forum etiquette is on point!)

Quote from: KTC on July 25, 2020, 10:43:52 AM

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
1) I served the original Sec 21 (form 6a) in early Feb 2020 - is this still valid?

If it was valid in the first place, then validity runs to six months from service, so you have a few days/weeks left.

Well, I served the notice on the tenant - as far as I am aware it is 'valid'. I believe I have met all the conditions for a valid notice. Additionally the original tenancy agreement was agreed pre-October 2015 and has been rolling periodic since then (so no new agreement as such)

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
2) If it is valid, but the original notice date has passed (April 2020), can this be amended to reflect a new notice date?

No, and err what, why? I don't understand, what new notice date?

What I mean here is that the original notice states that I ask the tenant to leave by the end of April 2020. That date has now passed, so what I'm wondering is can I just proceed in applying to the court now (even though they will likely stay it anyway) or do I have to generate a new sec 21 notice detailing a new leave date? I should add here that, as per the text in this original post, I did send an email to the tenant back in March when the pandemic/lockdown hit to say that I wouldn't be seeking to enforce the original sec 21 notice so I'm not sure if this muddies things - but as I understand it the notice is never cancelled regardless - it just expires after 6 months.... so I can still use it?

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
3) If the above do not apply, do I have to serve a new notice, can I do this immediately and considering current Covid associated regs/legisaltion CAN I actually do this and what has changed in terms of notice periods etc?

Yes, the minimum notice period was extended from at least two to at least three months.

But, if I go by the April leave date in the original notice can I just apply to the courts now?

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 07:46:53 AM
4) I now understand that the council, albeit unofficially, will not support the tenant until the baliffs arrive to evict. Therefore it looks like I will need to go to court to enforce a notice. Do you have any idea of costs here and am I likely to get resistance from a court to enforce?

£355 issue fee for court claim, you can ask the court to award you the cost of the claim against the tenant. £121 fee for a warrant for possession if the tenant don't leave after the order for possession.

Possession claims are currently all stayed until 23 August due to Covid-19. You can, an unless you want to serve a new s21 notice have to, issue the claim before that, it'll just get stayed. You'll have to serve a "reactivation notice" setting out "what knowledge that party has as to the effect of the Coronavirus pandemic on the Defendant and their dependants" after 23 August to get the stay lifted. That's new due to Covid, no one have done it before so no really useful advice that one can give.

Quote from: Faber123 on July 25, 2020, 11:34:16 AM
What I mean here is that the original notice states that I ask the tenant to leave by the end of April 2020. That date has now passed, so what I'm wondering is can I just proceed in applying to the court now (even though they will likely stay it anyway) or do I have to generate a new sec 21 notice detailing a new leave date? I should add here that, as per the text in this original post, I did send an email to the tenant back in March when the pandemic/lockdown hit to say that I wouldn't be seeking to enforce the original sec 21 notice so I'm not sure if this muddies things - but as I understand it the notice is never cancelled regardless - it just expires after 6 months.... so I can still use it?

That's not what Form 6A say, which you said you used. It says "You are required to leave the below address after [ ........... ]."

What did your email in March say?

The 6a stated:

'You are required to leave the below address after April 2020 date'

The March email to the tenant (paraphrased) stated:

We have taken the decision to not proceed with the sale at this time.... we will look to continue rental. Selling in the current climate may of course not be ideal...also aware that finding another property at present not ideal for you etc.

Please take this email as confirmation from the landlord that they do not wish to proceed with the section 21 notice that was served to you on (Feb date) and that the existing periodic tenancy in place will be unaffected. In addition I have advised (the council) that a new tenancy agreement for the property would make sense. Hopefully this should provide security should you choose to continue the tenancy.

Of course, if you do not wish to continue with the tenancy and sign a new tenancy agreement then do let me know.

The council were copied. This felt right and reasonable at the time with the backdrop of the pandemic, but it is clear that there is no wish on the part of the tenant to enter into a new agreement and we would rather sell now.

Despite the above March email, I assume that the original notice is active up until next month - and therefore can I apply to the courts now based upon this?

I would suggest you serve a new s21 notice.

Thank you for your help on this. It's a shame that I cannot move on this quicker (even though the courts may not stir into action for a while anyway.

One last thing (hopefully!). The tenancy agreement was signed in 2012. There has been no new agreement signed since then - it has just rolled on a periodic tenancy.

This June 2020 guidance https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/888808/Technical_guidance_on_eviction_notices.pdf appears to state:

"Landlords must use Form 6a if the tenancy was started or renewed after 30 September 2015."

It also states:

"For tenancies granted on or after 1st October 2015, a landlord also cannot use a Section 21 notice if they have not given their tenants copies of:
• the property's Energy Performance Certificate
• a current Landlord Gas Safety Record (if the property has gas appliances installed).
The landlord must also have given the tenants a copy of the current gas safety
certificate before they moved in.
• the government's 'How to rent' guide[/b]

So - in light of the above:

a) do I actually need to complete a 6a - and if not - what do I actually need to complete to facilitate the process?
b) do I need to have provided an EPC, gas cert and 'how to rent guide'? I don't recall being required to provide the EPC and guide at the time - but there is of course a valid gas cert in place.

a) Yes. Even if the answer is no, it wouldn't hurt you to use the prescribed form.

b) In terms of effects on the validity of s21 notice, no. In terms of it being a criminal offence not to, yes on gas safety certificate within 28 days of the test. The original tenancy predates EPC existence.

Brilliant - thank you KTC. Apols for the late reply, I will proceed with a new sec 21.

Can I just check one more thing with you in terms of the current situation with the tenant and the property?

I have chatted with the tenant and stated that I will issue a sec 21 (which is agreeable to her given her need to be re-housed)

It is also clear from the recent drain blockage and subsequent water damage to the kitchen, that the tenant has moved out of the flat citing that she does not feel safe returning (and will not return) because relations with the upstairs neighbour have soured so much.

This leaves me with a vacant property, until I can evict the tenant and repossess. Going by the current guidance this is not going to be until the autumn at the earliest. As far as I am aware the rent will continue to be paid by the council until she either voluntarily leaves or is evicted.

I have a water damaged kitchen to fix post drainage issue - so it might be argued that the flat is in some way uninhabitable - or at least needs remedial work even if she did choose to return.

The flat is due it's annual gas check - but the electricity is on a meter that the tenant tops up - but of course she is not there. The absence of electricity will make the boiler inspection impossible.

I of course want to be able to help the tenant but I feel my hands are tied a bit here. My concerns here are that I have a vacant property with problem neighbours preventing (supposedly) the return of my tenant. Can the tenant vacate for extended periods in this way based on her concerns and what are my options here (bearing in mind that I want possession of the property to sell asap)?