UK Landlord Forum / Life

A long-term Tenant, who was in receipt of LHA, has been an ongoing challenge, for years. She cannot handle her money herself (she doesn't have special needs or an addiction or anything, she's just... she's just who she is!). LHA used to pay an amount direct to me every 4 weeks - let's say that was £430 and, pro-rated, that really meant it came in at a rate of about £460 per month... and that meant she owed a top-up of £40 each month to make the rent amount of £500.

As it's easy to see, tracking this effectively can become quite a challenge - you never know when the next payment is, from the Council or her - you just know it's not on the same day every month! She has always been late with her top-up, but once I've reminded her she has tried to get back on track, and then she wanted to pay 2 x £20 per month, instead of a single payment... and they never came in on predictable days... sometimes it was £10... it was a mess.

I was always lenient, understanding, a bit of a pushover to be honest. At the end of the year I'd go through the statements and tot-up what was received from the Council and what was received directly from her - remembering to include the odd cash payment she'd given me! - and I'd always see it was a bit behind... not too much, nothing to get overly worried about - maybe £50 to £250 each year. I got frustrated by it, but I got more frustrated by doing the associated admin. to be honest... I even thought about just treating any top-up received as a kind of bonus, and just relying on the LHA... anyway, I always wiped it at the end of the year because I just couldn't be arsed... I would have a stern word or two about "how this can't continue"... she would listen to me attentively and make promises about sorting it. 

Anyway, she was about to be moved over to UC. Monthly payments here I come! Yippee! However, direct to the Tenant, who is feckless. She admits it herself, I'm not being rude (though she doesn't use the same word and wouldn't know what it meant). So we did what we could to get direct payments and UC rules now mean this is possible. Anyway, UC eventually phoned me and told me that payments would be coming direct - a "Direct Payment Arrangement" - they even asked me what the rent was, and I sent them the most recent AST from 2014 showing rent at £500 per month... they said they couldn't tell me what I'd receive... "For security reasons, we can't confirm the amount in this email."

For some reason I expected UC to pay me £500 per month.

Too much to expect?

Received the first payment today... for £460... so, basically, that's the old LHA payment of £430 that's been pro-rated to a monthly amount of £460... still the same £40 short... putting this Tenant into exactly the same situation - a modest top-up required every month.

A top-up that will be completely unpredictable... hit-and-miss.

Sure... things have improved. I now have a monthly payment rather than a 4 weekly payment. I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth, maybe? But I'm tempted to take a bath on this tenancy and bring it to an end, while I'm still able to, via a simple and straightforward Section 21.

I cannot help think I'm being cruel. This Tenant would become a victim of The System. Last time I told her I was feeling as though I needed to take some action towards eviction she started crying in front of me... got all snotty and gasping and everything... I can't handle that! But I don't see why UC don't just pay the £500 - now they're putting her into much the same situation as before... it's just two payments (one predictable, one not) rather than one (one predictable)... things have improved for me, a bit... with 12 UC payments per year now.

What would you do?

I always knew you were a big softy at heart!

On the face of it, your potential shortfall for the year is capped at £500ish. By the time you've wrestled your existing tenant out of the door, had a bit of a void and maybe got a new tenant who's an unknown quantity, that doesn't look so bad.

If you were to increase the rent by 10% would the UC payment rise to cover it, or does it hit a ceiling?

As a woman I am less easily impressed by tears and manipulations from others of my sex.I don't think you are being cruel.What would you do if this was a male tenant,would you have been so tolerant? We are all different,but the endless buggeration you describe would get to me,set me ruminating anxiously.I know from things you have said before that you set high standards for the state of your properties,so reletting should not be a problem. If she had learning difficulties or bad health it would be a different matter,which begs the question,why is she on benefits longterm? I speak as one who has done 3 low-paid crap jobs at the same time in the past,no state safety net,always paid my rent before anything else. I would give a final warning (in writing,that way you won't see the tears and snot ) and serve 21 if that fails.We should all try to help the vulnerable among us,but you are not running a charity for the feckless.

Quote from: Simon Pambin on July 11, 2019, 09:25:56 AMIf you were to increase the rent by 10% would the UC payment rise to cover it, or does it hit a ceiling?

She would normally, with UC, just get a massive (bigger than what many earn, don't get me started) payment into her bank account each month... and be expected to pay her own rent from that... that rent would be £500... so she'd pay me £500. Now, because they're paying me direct as a special arrangement, I seem to be getting £460 - as that is what they've calculated-out from the old LHA rate for the area and size of house.

I already told the UC lady that phoned me the rent was £500 per month and already supplied the AST where this was all already detailed in black-and-white.

So... if I increased the rent to £550 I don't see that their payment to me would change... the top-up required would just increase (and still not be paid). 

Quote from: heavykarma on July 11, 2019, 09:32:39 AMWe should all try to help the vulnerable among us,but you are not running a charity for the feckless.

It's true. I'm supposed to be taking advantage of my Tenants... what kind of Landlord am I if I can't even do that? What kind of example am I setting to others?

You really are letting the side down.I have looked to you as an exemplar,don't disillusion me.

We-e-e-e-ll... UC underpaid the rent amount of £500... I think they pro-rated the 4-weekly LHA amount and ignored whatever was in the AST I supplied (at their request - dunno if they bothered to read it - and I cannot fathom why they could not tell me the figure beforehand now - if it's just calculated-out from known / published figures). So I'm now stuck with a monthly underpayment as opposed to a 4-weekly underpayment and my feckless Tenant is still liable to send me the modest top-up... which, as everyone understands, she will fail to do regularly. And has failed to do already. So UC pay her rent to me direct, because she has admitted to them, herself, that she cannot handle money... then they've given her a whole other chunk of money, some [small amount] of which is due me which she's gone and spent.

I'm trying to figure out if my lot has improved... maybe. The System can get you down... I'm not going to stop chasing.

I guess this is why the usual advice to landlords is never let to councils or those on benefits.I have never knowingly done so,and the couple of times tenants have gone onto benefits after moving in it has ended badly-for me.I guess this is a moral/political issue for you.I now feel my lifetime of voting Labour may change,hearing the plans they have to give even more power to tenants.I do have great sympathy for a lot of people who have no choice but to be on benefits,but your tenant is just taking the piss.   

Solution : Get her to sign up to the Tasker Payment service or any credit union. Her UC is paid into her Tasker account and your entire rent in ring fenced. Google Tasker Payment service and thank me later

Sounds like a good idea Mandy,but can you imagine trying to get someone like that to sign up for it? From her point of view,what's in it for her? I suppose one answer would be issue 21,and offer to revoke if she does that.